Ink desities on press are very low. WHY?

[Lukas Engqvist]

Best thing is if the pressman doesn't see the proof They should be able to print by numbers. Matching wet ink to proofs isn't a good idea, I know customers that have been shown the same sheet 15 minutes of just waiting and approved the match to the proof just by waiting for the ink to dry (they weren't told that it was the sheet they previously rejected when it was fresh off the press).

I think it is important not to make too many quick adjustments but to base adjustment of curves over time. One thing I found at a sister site was that they didn't have routine to calibrate for paper thickness.

 

[Prepper]

Yes Lukas that is exactly what our pressman says, he says put the proof away, press sheets look better than the proof sometimes anyway, and if the customer (in-plant) doesn't have a proof to compare to he will like the sheet anyway.

He uses the press as a color correcting adjustment tool to run the colors as he thinks it should look. Problem with that is we have run MaxGCR for 5 years now, so now that he is fully back to adjusting on press, he is moving densities 20-30 points so that throws out the solids so I have removed the MaxGCR, going back to linear plates because the curves aren't right anyway because conditions have changed and he's using several different papers which I've found don't work with all the same curves, and at that point I too see no purpose for a proof except to check content because the color will most likely not match. Also, color gamut will be smaller because that's usually the way it gets adjusted, down, never up, so gamut goes back towards SWOP color. And all that on a 6-color Heidelberg running 20 micron FM screening, asking at the same time for software to do ink presets for him. How can you convince him that would be pointless using his color adjusting process?

We will be using more ink, taking more time and paper to make-ready, not have a proof to sheet match, but he will be happy thinking he's getting better color adjusting it to how he sees it.

Oh well...

 

[gordo]

I don't think that's what Lukas meant.
If management is happy with what's happening then I would go on about my business and not worry.
If management has a problem with this situation then it's time to have a big talk with this press operator - it might be time for him to leave.
If managent doesn't know what's going on then I would start documenting what's happening so that I could present a clear case for change, or, at the very least prevent me from getting covered when the $#it hits the fan

Best, gordo

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

… And all that on a 6-color Heidelberg running 20 micron FM screening, asking at the same time for software to do ink presets for him. How can you convince him that would be pointless using his color adjusting process?

With the problems you describe are you really ready for FM? If I were you I'd spend some time on Gordons blogg (The Print Guide)

As Gordon implied you misunderstand me. When I say don't show the proof, I mean that if the printer JUST goes by the numbers he will sometimes get where he should faster than if he tries to match wet ink (before setback etc) with proof.

 

[Prepper]

As Gordon implied you misunderstand me. When I say don't show the proof, I mean that if the printer JUST goes by the numbers he will sometimes get where he should faster than if he tries to match wet ink (before setback etc) with proof.

Right Lukas, but if you don't go by numbers, just adjusting by eye thinking you know it's not going to work at the numbers anyway, and you keep trying that but you aren't getting the proof matched, then yes he wants to throw out the proof. Then on the runs he does finally get it pretty close, I show him, yes, now its close, look at where it is, it is gray balanced, because that is what will make it match the G7 proof, if you had went to the numbers to start with you would have been there an hour or two ago!

As for the dry back, we don't experience that with it all being aqueous coated, measure very little dry back.

We have been running FM for 3 years very successfully, we expected some problems from all the negativity we got about it, but it went suprisingly well.


Thanks

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Ok. In the end it's about trust between departments.