Is an iGen 4 really worth it?

[ShortRunMagazines]

We currently have 3 Docucolor 5000AP from Xerox, while I am pleased with the image quality and the value, I am not pleased with the reliability (or lack of) as we see techs 4 days a week on average.

We feel replacing the three DC5000's with two Xerox 8080's is a better plan, however, Xerox is trying to shove an iGen 4 down our throat. The break-even point between the two offerings is about 500K color and 200K black per month so we'd have some growing to do to make the iGen the better choice. (We currently run about 260K Color and 60K black all 12x18 per month.)

I like the theoretical fact that the iGen can handle well into 1 million per month, but the price point really is steep. I also suspect the costs for operation are going to be higher in things like electricity and insurance. I estimate the build-out to make the facility ready to be about $8,000 if we don't need to add another AC System.

We are a growing shop and have been increasing the click volume by about 4% per month so getting to 500K shouldn't be an issue (knock on wood). Don't use online finishing or VI so those items don't matter, just need to reliably put ink on paper, quickly.

So my questions to iGen owners...
Does it stay operational or is it constantly needing service?
What did it do to your electric bill?
How does it handle changing from one paper type to another?
If you could go back, would you purchase it again?

Thanks for your help, I'm very puzzled and dizzy from all of the Xerox Kool-Aid!

 

[Craig]

Just a thought, if you have to 8080's you have redundancy when one takes a crap. What is your option when the iGen is sitting on the john? You now have a $600,000.00 paper weight. I would be a bit leery about the iGen... Xerox was trying to push one on me too, thay must have some sales marks they are falling short on.

 

[Steve_S]

What Craig said

In this economy, do you really want to "bet on the come", or address your needs along with redundancy. All machines break down.....

 

[msaeger]

Is there something you want to run that the Igen can and the 8080 can't? Like larger format, different kind of paper or something? If not I would say two machines is the way to go. With the three machines you have now you say they break a lot but how often are all three down with one machine if it's down you can't run anything.

 

[WharfRat]

We have the iGEN 4 here.
Originally had a DocuColor (fair)
Then an iGEN 3 (maintenance and technician nightmare)
(Seems like we had 3 Xerox techs on staff as they were here constantly)
Now the iGEN 4 (it is a dream)
We never see a tech - and if we do, it is to work on the 3 again.
We use the new matte toners.
Quality, consistency and reliability is great.

MSD

 

[wildcatt]

I'm not in your volume range but the theory of redundancy is the same.
I would never (ever) put all my eggs in one digital basket. I've been bitten way too many times by hard to get parts, unknown problem, etc. And it's always the old slow machine you never use that saves the day.
I'd go with 2 whatever, anytime.

my 2 cents

 

[sherif farouk]

Think what you can give to your customer

Think what you can give to your customer

Think what you can offer more to your customer in terms of quality different paper size and waits witch will allow you to do different application like posters discount coupons steckers .
Which will lead to better customer satisfaction and mor competitive eage
Customer first

 

[Wolfie66]

We have an iGen4 here. We had some early buggy issues with Free Flow Print Server but those have been resolved and it has been very reliable. The 26" sheet size was instrumental in us landing a three year contract with a client that will push at least $1M/year through our operation. The new matte dry ink likely just landed us the business of a client that will be even bigger than the previously referenced client. Once we do some test prints in the next couple of weeks, we'll get a committment from them.

The whole strategic focus for us with putting in the iGen4 was to go after work that we weren't able to with our previous digital press - and we're having a lot of success.

 

[Dennism]

We have had IGen4 for 8 months. Lots of early problems finally traced to a faulty wiring loom, since then the engine goes like a dream, if only the DFE was the same! We'vre got the volume but can't get it through the DFE. Freeflow is a contradiction in terms!

We are pushing around 375k x B3 clicks per month of which 2 thirds are individual jobs of anything up to 5k x A5 x 3 part NCR sets, each part a different colour NCR stock, printed four to view, delivering all nicely numbered and collated.

I mention this because (1) its complex , (2) we'll switch from NCR which generates a unique set of problems to producing high quality colour on coated stock without too many issues.

 

[david m. baker]

We are an in-plant shop for a financial services organization. We recently moved from iGen3 (nightmare in terms of down time, maint., color, and the like) to iGen4. The upgrade has been worth every single cent, and here's why:

*FreeFlow v8 has resolved all the issues we used to have with transparencies on the 3
*In-line color management features on the 4 have eliminated a LOT (not all) of our color variance
*Carry/Dispense developer has eliminated a LOT of maintenance and color variance
*Larger sheet size allows us to N-up more pages to a sheet, thereby driving down costs for the shop
*Larger sheet size allows us to offer more options to clients, thereby driving more business to the shop
*Better consistency between the presses within run and from run to run

Overall, I'm thrilled to death with the new machine and it is a sigNIFicant improvement over the 3. Add to that the excellent support we get from Xerox when we *do* need a tech, and it's been a slam dunk for us. The only gap I see continuing with the iGen is that it's really not good with tints and screens, but we're learning how to work around that every day.

Finally, on the paper question: We do a lot of different kinds of jobs for the firm. We usually run either Accent or Xerox (silk and gloss), but also push a lot of 28# Hammermill, NeverTear poly paper, magnecote, window cling, and other custom stock. If it's rated for an iGen, chances are we've run it here.

Hope this helps!
-d-

 

[Dennism]

In my earlier reply I critised the Freeflow/DFE as really the only weakness in the iGen 4 set up. Xerox are now swapping out the Freeflow for the alternative EFI Fiery box, which after testing shows to have none of the problems of Freeflow.

I have to say that Xerox have been highly supportive throughout this whole episode, but one of the more interesting comments that came out of discussions is that - not unsurprisingly - the Freeflow front end makes for a cheaper install package, so beware if you are driving price down.