KM4070 vs Xerox V280

[heidelberg38]

I’m planning on purchasing one of the above very soon, both are similarly priced but with Covid restrictions I’m struggling to get out and view

does anyone have any experience or feedback on the pluses and negatives with these two?

Im swaying to the KM due to poor service from Xerox but would appreciate and feedback.

thanks

 

[gazfocus]

To be honest, service would be my number one criteria so if you have had poor service from Xerox, go with the Konica (unless you can get the Xerox from a different dealer)

 

[heidelberg38]

Call outs haven’t been bad with Xerox this past 5 years, usually a max of 24 hours, it’s everything else they seem to be failing with!

the embellishments sound good on the 280 and would open the door for new business, but would love to hear from owners on their thoughts.

thanks

 

[jwheeler]

I used to sell KM production gear, and I now work at a shop that runs KM units. Even with that, I won't advise which one over the other. They both have very similar specs, both produce a great image, and they are usually priced around the same for lease and CPC. As @gazfocus said, the biggest factor is service. You already know what to expect from Xerox. KM will tell you what you want to hear, however, it's best to ask for local references and ask them what sort of response time they offer and if there's any issues getting parts/supplies. Here in the US, they usually strive for a 4 hour turn-around time, although it's become next day in recent years.

I know the 5th color on the Xerox seems appealing, but if you haven't already had regular requests for it, they won't start rolling through the door just because you can now do it. You will have to really market it, and even then, it will be for niche projects. My current shop had considered it specifically for the gold as an alternative to gold foiling, but it really doesn't have enough shimmer to impress anyone. The clear toner seems exciting for spot UV, but again, it appeared very weak on the samples our Xerox rep brought us. We really had to angle the paper just right to catch the light and see it. If you think it will boost your business, then go for it!

 

[azehnali]

Hi
If you would consider a refurbished Xerox Versant 180 , I can you help with that

 

[Ynot_UK]

We’ve had our KM C4080 for coming up three months (proudly the first UK installation within a couple of weeks of global launch). So far, all superb and would highly recommend.
Ours was bought from our existing KM dealer as opposed to the direct channel. Our business has grown up on KM machines over fifteen years. We have a comprehensive offline finishing setup so opted for the basic OT-510 stacker. The RU-518 relay unit is awesome, everything is delivered cool and perfectly flat.

 

[MacDaddy]

I’m planning on purchasing one of the above very soon, both are similarly priced but with Covid restrictions I’m struggling to get out and view

does anyone have any experience or feedback on the pluses and negatives with these two?

Im swaying to the KM due to poor service from Xerox but would appreciate and feedback.

thanks

I have always stayed away from Xerox have heard of two many nightmares. I have three KM not saying it is better then Ricoh or Cannon. But I have the best service guy and that is what is important.

 

[crajos]

I have a Konica C3080 we picked up a year ago, and have run Konica C1060s prior to that. They have been reliable and print quality has always been excellent. I haven't run Xerox, but I have heard stories about them being more problematic (as well as Canon color machines), but as I don't run those. I'm sure there are an equal number of people who will praise Canon or Xerox.

Others are right - service is absolutely something to think about. I've had people offer me great deals on other equipment, but their service is coming from 2 hours away. Even with a 'guaranteed' response time, I don't want to hear "Well we need a part, we'll schedule to come back". My techs and their warehouse are 20 minutes away and they have techs dedicated just to production-grade equipment; that's valuable.

Regarding the C3080, jams are very few and far between and it's handled just about every type of stock I can throw at it. I think all of the manufacturers have some sort of in-line calibration available - Konica has had spectrophotometers inside their relay units for a while. Now Konica has the 'IQ-501' unit - I have this on my press. Personally, I wouldn't want to go back to running without it. Exacting color and front/back registration, continuous monitoring during print runs, easy creation of output profiles, engine and controller calibration...it's great. I run an in-plant, so most of the work we print has our brand colors on it, one of them a custom spot that's kind of a pain to hit. Both our marketing department and myself have never been happier with what's coming off the press.

 

[danos]

I have a Konica C3080 we picked up a year ago, and have run Konica C1060s prior to that. They have been reliable and print quality has always been excellent. I haven't run Xerox, but I have heard stories about them being more problematic (as well as Canon color machines), but as I don't run those. I'm sure there are an equal number of people who will praise Canon or Xerox.

Others are right - service is absolutely something to think about. I've had people offer me great deals on other equipment, but their service is coming from 2 hours away. Even with a 'guaranteed' response time, I don't want to hear "Well we need a part, we'll schedule to come back". My techs and their warehouse are 20 minutes away and they have techs dedicated just to production-grade equipment; that's valuable.

Regarding the C3080, jams are very few and far between and it's handled just about every type of stock I can throw at it. I think all of the manufacturers have some sort of in-line calibration available - Konica has had spectrophotometers inside their relay units for a while. Now Konica has the 'IQ-501' unit - I have this on my press. Personally, I wouldn't want to go back to running without it. Exacting color and front/back registration, continuous monitoring during print runs, easy creation of output profiles, engine and controller calibration...it's great. I run an in-plant, so most of the work we print has our brand colors on it, one of them a custom spot that's kind of a pain to hit. Both our marketing department and myself have never been happier with what's coming off the press.

Hi Crajos,
We recently purchased a konica 4070 with IQ installed. I would like to ask what is the accuracy of back front registration?
Personally I cannot say that I am particularly happy with the deviations of the accuracy.. I mean devations about 1mm are quite common to our jobs..
Are these normal? I have the impression that something was not installed correctly in our machine.
Also, we are quite new on the digital printing (we came from offset presses) and I would like to know does the back front regiostration depends only on the IQ or it has to do with the feeding as well? The Konica technicians told us that feeding doe not play any role, which sounds "wrong" to me..

 

[heidelberg38]

Have you calibrated the stock? We have perfect registration up to 350gsm?

 

[danos]

Have you calibrated the stock? We have perfect registration up to 350gsm?

Hi and thank you for the reply! I
Well, konica Minolta technician calibrate the stock. But, what exactly calibration includes apart from the paper settings and the IQ automesaure? In the link bellow you can see my setting for 350gsm coated paper.

 

[crajos]

Hi Crajos,
We recently purchased a konica 4070 with IQ installed. I would like to ask what is the accuracy of back front registration?
Personally I cannot say that I am particularly happy with the deviations of the accuracy.. I mean devations about 1mm are quite common to our jobs..
Are these normal? I have the impression that something was not installed correctly in our machine.
Also, we are quite new on the digital printing (we came from offset presses) and I would like to know does the back front regiostration depends only on the IQ or it has to do with the feeding as well? The Konica technicians told us that feeding doe not play any role, which sounds "wrong" to me..

Danos -

First - Konica's registration tolerance without the IQ is 2mm. To my understanding, this is pretty standard for many manufacturers. They aren't going to guarantee 0mm tolerance for registration as there are so many factors in play.

I think they mentioned that paper feeding doesn't play a role in registration because the machine has a feature in place that corrects for paper position. In the ADU drawer there is a sensor(s) that reads the lead-edge of the sheet and uses rollers to 'square-up' the sheet before toner is laid down it it (this happens very quickly). This has been in place for the past several models of Konica production presses. The sensor is located just before the 2nd transfer roller. So before the sheet even gets to the IQ it's been squared up. That said - it's not a perfect system and you should still try to load your drawers as neatly as possible. If you're using paper that you cut down in-house...make sure it's a perfect 90-degree cut and that your entire stack of paper is cut exactly to the size needed. If some sheets are the exact size, and some are an extra 1mm longer - then your front/back is likely going to be off a bit.

I primarily run pre-cut digital sheets, and run an auto front/back adjustment before jobs. What I mean by that is I'll click on the 'Both Sides' button at the bottom of the panel, pick my tray, and select the Auto tab. Then select print mode and kick out a couple sheets. I usually only run one sheet, but for more critical jobs I'll run 3 sheets to give the IQ more data work with. Even running one sheet - 95% of the time I get spot-on front/back registration. It's fantastic for a process that takes 30 seconds or less.

That said, variables can cause registration deviations. Humidity, change in paper batches, paper being pulled from another place and acclimating to the pressroom, etc. If it's absolutely necessary that each sheet be monitored - you can enable that in Fiery job properties under Image > Real time adjustment. Turn on Position+gradiation. That will print density and registration marks on the outer edges of every single sheet, and flag the IQ to read them and adjust on the fly. But you have to have the extra room on the sheet to allow for this.

Our C3080 does deviate occasionally, but nowhere near as bad as our previous C1060s. I find when we have registration problems, it's because we didn't run an auto front/back alignment before we started the job. You can save paper presets with front/back alignment data. This can be useful, but that registration data is going to change as the climate does - even if you're in a climate controlled building.

 

[Ynot_UK]

We don't have the IQ-501 on our C4080 however have found registration to be accurate and consistent to within a small fraction of a millimetre after carrying out the "Both Sides" adjustment (scanning the adjustment chart with the backing sheet)

 

[danos]

Danos -

First - Konica's registration tolerance without the IQ is 2mm. To my understanding, this is pretty standard for many manufacturers. They aren't going to guarantee 0mm tolerance for registration as there are so many factors in play.

I think they mentioned that paper feeding doesn't play a role in registration because the machine has a feature in place that corrects for paper position. In the ADU drawer there is a sensor(s) that reads the lead-edge of the sheet and uses rollers to 'square-up' the sheet before toner is laid down it it (this happens very quickly). This has been in place for the past several models of Konica production presses. The sensor is located just before the 2nd transfer roller. So before thde sheet even gets to the IQ it's been squared up. That said - it's not a perfect system and you should still try to load your drawers as neatly as possible. If you're using paper that you cut down in-house...make sure it's a perfect 90-degree cut and that your entire stack of paper is cut exactly to the size needed. If some sheets are the exact size, and some are an extra 1mm longer - then your front/back is likely going to be off a bit.

I primarily run pre-cut digital sheets, and run an auto front/back adjustment before jobs. What I mean by that is I'll click on the 'Both Sides' button at the bottom of the panel, pick my tray, and select the Auto tab. Then select print mode and kick out a couple sheets. I usually only run one sheet, but for more critical jobs I'll run 3 sheets to give the IQ more data work with. Even running one sheet - 95% of the time I get spot-on front/back registration. It's fantastic for a process that takes 30 seconds or less.

That said, variables can cause registration deviations. Humidity, change in paper batches, paper being pulled from another place and acclimating to the pressroom, etc. If it's absolutely necessary that each sheet be monitored - you can enable that in Fiery job properties under Image > Real time adjustment. Turn on Position+gradiation. That will print density and registration marks on the outer edges of every single sheet, and flag the IQ to read them and adjust on the fly. But you have to have the extra room on the sheet to allow for this.

Our C3080 does deviate occasionally, but nowhere near as bad as our previous C1060s. I find when we have registration problems, it's because we didn't run an auto front/back alignment before we started the job. You can save paper presets with front/back alignment data. This can be useful, but that registration data is going to change as the climate does - even if you're in a climate controlled building.

Crajos, I really appreciate your reply and the time you spent. Wish you the best for you and your business!