Konica Minolta 6500 - Thoughts

[Whygen]

Sorry - just realised the IC305 is the new fiery rip...
Actualy didnt test this as I wasnt aware it was available - and sales guys didnt mention it
They said the earlier fiery wasnt as good as the new Creo...but I will give them a call monday to get a demo set up...

The tests we did on the new Creo were excellent against the Canon and Igen output - which really amazed me as the machine is a 1/5th of the price of an Igen.....abviously cant do the heavier stocks etcand a lot slower but still....

 

[printguy]

I realize it's a new machine and wear and tear over time will degrade the performance. But, we now have 150,000 clicks(less than 1 month) on this machine and it's performed flawlessly. Can't say I had the same experience with Xerox or Canon. We do use quality stock and the Creo rip has surprised us after a few quirky flaws that the tech quickly resolved.

 

[lfelton]

Wygen - sorry should have said - the 305 is the new Fiery. I think KM only got deliveries recently (at least here in Europe).

Printguy - can I ask,is your KM in a climate controlled room? Their "Q Zone" on the pre-installation survey is very small. It seems that the KM is _very_ sensitive to humidity and some of the hardware mods for the '01 seem to be in order to address this. Only one of our buildings is climate controlled and it's not the one the 6501 is going into

 

[random]

Can someone tell me what these hardware mods are and what they are supposed to fix? I know it sounds amazeing to some of you that Printguy is having a good run with his c6500 but this is actually pretty normal.

 

[lfelton]

there's a few but I guess you are just talking about the mods for "density variation"

changing material of writing lens to low level moisture absorption
adjustment of density profile mechanism
modification of screen of yellow in dot1

...probably means more to you than me to be honest

It's all on the product presentation, you should probably get hold of it.

 

[random]

Right, well if your hanging out for a c6501 so you get these mods I wouldn't as the current c6500's coming out of the factory already incorperate all of these mods. Ask for the last c6500 and get a deal, essentially you'll be getting the same machine. Assuming that these are the only modifications of course.

 

[Craig]

I realize it's a new machine and wear and tear over time will degrade the performance. But, we now have 150,000 clicks(less than 1 month) on this machine and it's performed flawlessly. Can't say I had the same experience with Xerox or Canon. We do use quality stock and the Creo rip has surprised us after a few quirky flaws that the tech quickly resolved.

Hi Printguy,
What kind of paper are you running and if it's cover over 220 gsm are you duplexing, if so how is front to back registration? Are you print for pay, and what kind of coverage are your runs?
Thanks

 

[Whygen]

I hope it runs over 220gsm? according to the specs it runs 256gsm (duplex) reliably and can be pushed to 280 - 300gsm???

 

[lfelton]

Hi Whygen - what did you go for in the end?

I was also told about a long delay for the 6501e, but I think the "delay" with the 6501e (at least in Europe) was simply that they still had over 40 6500e's left in stock (about three weeks ago). Those were all sold when I placed my order and new stocks of 6501e's had already turned up. Delivery in about a week.

 

[random]

I have seen some more info on the 6501 and it would appear there are a few more changes than I first thought. When I get the cold hard facts I will let you know.

 

[Whygen]

Ifelton - we have gone for the 6501e with the IC304+ rip. I have asked them about the Fiery (305) and they said that I can swap the creo out at any time if I want the fiery....so will do some testing and see...getting the machine delivered tomorrow.....

I do have some reservatioins about having to "work n turn" for duplex heavy stock but what sold it to me was the quality (beating the Canon and the Igen on 80% of test images - really suprised me) and an attractive price entry point...clcik rate very good too. The guatanteed response time (4 hrs) is longer than Xerox (2hrs) but we intend to probably get another machine quite quickly for extra contingency. I think KM can do "out of hours" maintenance at speacial arrangement?

I think you get 28 days returns policy on the KM's so we should know by then wether its right for us or not...

Have you got your new machine in yet? where are you based?

 

[lfelton]

Whygen - our installation is a week after yours. We were also impressed by the print quality, very much on a par with the Xerox 700 with a Creo RIP, and even edging it out on some tests. Having said that, both are fine machines and were well ahead of the test results off of an 8000AP (which was our alternative). The 700 was cheaper than the 6501, but the 6501 beat it on click cost, front to back registration and duty cycle. We'll switch about 100,000 impressions a month onto it from day one and if the quality and reliability remain OK then, like you, we'll get another one in shortly. We're in the UK and mainly do brochures, magazines and books with a bit of general jobbing work thrown in. The click price is at a level where we could also start to move some of the low end work off a press (which would no doubt make K-M very happy!).

I hope it goes well for you - let me know how you get on.

 

[dencen]

which machines.

which machines.

we do 120,000 clicks a month,a mixture of 80#coated text,100#coated cover,12 pt coated cover mostly duplexed 12x18.

we use to run xerox 5000(ran great,exremely reliable)

we demoed km6500 a couple of months ago,not auto duplexing on heavy stocks was an issue as was overall print quality.

we went with canon 6000vp,prints beautifully, but service techs are in 3 times a week,lots of software glitches,jamming more often as click count goes up,techs are constantly pming machine.

questions:
is the output on the xerox 5000ap more in line with the canon ?

anyone know anything significant about the new xerox 700?


(random-this one is for you)will the km6500 or km6501 stand up to my volumes on the heavy stocks?


are you guys sure about km 28 day return policy,they gave us a real hard time in the spring about bringing it in on a trial and never mentioned a return policy.


any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

 

[random]

(random-this one is for you)will the km6500 or km6501 stand up to my volumes on the heavy stocks?

are you guys sure about km 28 day return policy,they gave us a real hard time in the spring about bringing it in on a trial and never mentioned a return policy.

Im metric so your paper weights don't mean much to me. My customers who run that volume usually run 100gsm. My customers who run other weights are typically on 300gsm all day overprinting shells. I do have customers that run a bit of 200gsm duplex and I haven't had any complaints.

You should get a written garantee if you are worried it isn't up to what they say it can do. Im sure it can.

Personally I wouldn't invest that much money in anything I didn't know would do the job so a months trail seems fair to me.

 

[Craig]

Dencen

Sounds like the same thing I went through with CLC4000's. You better nip this in the bud fast or Canon will drag their feet... took me almost 3 years to get out of that lease. You should have received a CED (Customer Expectation Document), read it well and throw it at your salesperson. Tell them you expect it to work as stated in the CED or buy it back!

 

[X33]

dencen,

you defientely need to look at the new Xerox 700. Contact your local Xerox rep ASAP, you will be satisfied with the quality (offset like/matte), no fuser oil, front to back registration of 1.0mm, auto duplex up to 220gsm, up to 13x19 paper, maximum uptime with Customer Replaceable Units; all backed up by Xerox Service and Financing.

the DC5000AP output is slightly different from the old DC5000, but you have to see it to make your own decision.

 

[John A]

Is the XANTE Ilumina based on the KM 6500?

Thanks.

 

[lfelton]

Is the XANTE Ilumina based on the KM 6500?

Thanks.

I'm no expert, but I don't think they're in any way related. The 6501 (6500 is superseded) is a fairly big machine, ours is about 13 feet long excluding RIP and weighs 2/3 of a tonne. I had a quick look at the xante site and that looks more like a desk top printer.

I may be wrong - someone like Random will correct me shortly!

 

[John A]

My mistake, you're right.

Thanks,

 

[etgraphics]

I bought a 6500 and it's a heap of crap. Does nothing right except maybe paper. It's just an office copier made to look like a big box option. Have done 440,000 copies and it's worn out. Has not printed properly since it passed 100,000 prints. We do 80% printing on card and that's probably why it failed so badly
Cheers
Tim