Konica Minolta 6500 - Thoughts

[bgardner]

Does anyone own and consistently run one of these as a color production machine? We currently own a Xerox DocuColor 5000, but we are considering getting rid of it and purchase the KM 6500 - Mainly for price, but we dont look the shiny toner that the DocuColor Produces. Anyone have any really good things to say about this machine, or bad things for that matter??

 

[random]

You should talk to Craig. He comes across a bit you know 'pro konica' but cut thru the propaganda and you might get some sense.

 

[Craig]

Thanks Random.... I'll take it from here!

I have notices the DC5000 does print an almost fake looking image with the amount of shine, that was one reason we did not lease that machine. You may want to look at the AP option, ask if you are able to have a field upgrade on you 5000. I don't know if it is true with the 5000AP but on our 8000AP when run in All Weights Mode there is much less shine on the image.

I would also look at the 7000AP/8000AP - ImagePress 6000/7000VP - NexPress M700 they are much more robust machines then that tiny little KM6500 (just for you Random ). Seriously though all these machines (including the KM6500) are fine, but it depends an your volume and the substrates you are running. Here we are around 70,000/month but that's all 12x18 coated from 80lb text to 110lb cover, we run very little 8.5 x 11 and 11 x 17 and 85% is duplexed.

Your needs will determine the machine you need, don't make the mistake of just looking at the sticker price, I have found by making that mistake you do get what you pay for. There is a reason why the big machines are more expensive, open them up and look inside, comparer the size, weight and paper paths, the way they image, you'll see why.

 

[cosmo]

We have had one for a couple of years, and also the xerox, if i was to be honest I wouldnt buy any of them, but, it depends what you can sell to your clients, the xerox is a workhorse but the shiny toner looks shit, the konica looks great on vivid images but looks very average on midtone images, ie screens of blue, red etc, are real grainy looking, most of the public wont even notice, but the konica midtones are the worst in the industry, so bad I even put jobs on my press so I dont embaress ourselves to our clients, the Xerox midtones are far nicer, much more saleable.

I know from talking to people at Xerox that they have almost phased out the silicon in there toner which gives them that shiny look, so good news there, I know from talking to people at Konica that they have only made a tiny adjustment to there engine that hasnt changed for 5-6 years.

Heres the kicker with Konica, they have a new machine coming out, its called the c65001, thats a 1 on the end of the 6500, the difference is that they have fixed a problem with colour shift across the width of the page, which is very noticeable on the 6500, something I have complained about since we got ours, so, instead of fixiing your existing machine they would rather sell you a new one, I used to be a supporter of Konica, but now I know they just dont have the technology to produce a production colour machine, Konica just dont have the expertise to produce reliable sellable colour, and thats what matters, selling the product

So, in my opinion, dont touch them, seirously, wait 12 months, something better will pop up.

 

[bgardner]

Thank you!!!

 

[random]

I know from talking to people at Konica that they have only made a tiny adjustment to there engine that hasnt changed for 5-6 years.

This is not an accurate comment so I would take the rest of the comments in the same light. When people make relativly broad and vauge comments like this they don't actually own or don't understand the machine.

Heres the kicker with Konica, they have a new machine coming out, its called the c65001, thats a 1 on the end of the 6500,

There is no such machine in the konica range. There is a c6501, c5501 so you need to amend your Xerox compeditor advantage document.

the difference is that they have fixed a problem with colour shift across the width of the page, which is very noticeable on the 6500

Not sure why Konica would release a new version of machine to fix one fault that can be easily fixed in the field. Unlike the DC5000 where this fault is unresolveable unless you buy an AP. Well I guess so I haven't actually seen an AP.

but now I know they just dont have the technology to produce a production colour machine, Konica just dont have the expertise to produce reliable sellable colour, and thats what matters, selling the product

If this were the case then you, I mean Xerox wouldn't have designed a machine specifcally to take on the c6500.

Bgradner, like Craig says you need to go in and look at a machine and look for the mythical imbalance and poor halftones. No harm in looking.

 

[BrentHals]

Seriously take a look at the Canon imagePRESS. It uses gloss optimization and won't leave that shiny look like the Xerox machine and has more depth than the Konica Minolta machinge

 

[printguy]

Happy LA Konica user

Happy LA Konica user

We installed a new Konica Minolta and put 50,000 clicks on it in a week - 1 jam.
The Canon (imagepress 6000) was more than double the price and click charges much higher than Konica. It uses no fuser oil and so far the color consistency has been outstanding. Good value for the money. Sweet spot for this printer is 150-175k per month.

00 clicks on it in a week. It uses no fuser oil and eliminates the shine that the Xerox box puts down.

 

[Craig]

Try doing that volume month in and month out and see how long you go without jams.

 

[random]

if you find your c6500 is jamming that often craig you should get a tech out. It is unusual for a c6500 to jam.

 

[Craig]

Random, you know I don't have a c6500, so I guess I never will have a jamming issue

 

[random]

So an uneducated assumption?

 

[Craig]

So an uneducated assumption?

 

[Davco]

You two guys are cracking me up.

 

[Mark]

Our 6500 jams like crazy when you run 100# cover. Putting small lifts into drawer 5 (instead of loading it up) helps.
If you want a low cost (compared to big digital boys) and so-so quality (compared to litho) buy one!

 

[rbailleu]

I have to aggree with printguy, if you want perfection spend more on canon or xerox if you want a machine will do a nice job for 98% of your customers go km6500 or ikoncpp650. we did the ikon and are real happy with it. one service call in 6 months of course we only do 15,000 / month

"We installed a new Konica Minolta and put 50,000 clicks on it in a week - 1 jam.
The Canon (imagepress 6000) was more than double the price and click charges much higher than Konica. It uses no fuser oil and so far the color consistency has been outstanding. Good value for the money. Sweet spot for this printer is 150-175k per month."

 

[Whygen]

For what its worth I have just tested the KM6500 the canon 6000/7000 series extensively.
The 6500 with its old rip isnt as good quality wise as the Canon - with the new Creo rip 304+
it actually surpasses the the Canon output in many ways and the Igen (We have an Igen) havent been able to test the midtones with the new creo+ rip - I know the 6500 with the old rip has problems with light grey etc - looks very mucky (think there is too much yellow dots in it (some security feature that KM uses).....would test the 6501 with new rip that comes out imminently....

 

[lfelton]

Whygen - did you run your own samples with the new IC305 RIP? Our test samples showed cleaner tints and more accurate gradient fills than the IC304+ I'm looking at our standard test sheet now and the grey patches (5/10/15 all the way up to 95%) are clean and smooth. I was pretty impressed to see a screen at 5% and 95% on a toner based machine. Also 8pt down to 1pt reversed out white text on a red background is showing clean white (right down to 1).

So, money where my mouth is: a c6501e with IC305/FACI/GA is on order.

It will be interesting next month, as we will then have KM and Xerox running side by side in the same press hall.

 

[Drawkward]

Just a warning. Do not get the Oce equivalent of the KM6500. They do not stand behind there service or their products. Oce has totally left us on our own with a crappy B/W machine and has not offered to do anything about it. It does not live up to specs or service response times.

I thought the 6500 was a nice compromise It didn't print as well as the Xerox 252 but had more finishing and stock options. I cannot speak for KM, but do not do business with Oce. The sales rep we had with them was OUTSTANDING. The problem was, the company he was working for wasn't He ended up leaving because he couldn't sell their products in good conscience. Who ever hired him has a real gem working for them.

Just venting. Good Luck.

 

[Whygen]

Ifelton - yep, all my own files...bit confused tho because I was led to believe that the latest carnation of the Creo (and the one going on the 6501e) was the Creo IC304+ ??? - I didnt know there was a IC305 Rip ???
Tell me - are you based in the US ? because perhaps they are calling the 304+ - 305 over there ???

If not I will ask KM why I havent been shown the 305....