konica minolta 6501 vs 6000 vs xerox 700

[natty]

Hi All,

We currently have an KM-5501 and are needing additional output capacity as we are really slamming it hard... (100,000 + SRA3 per month)

My first initial thought was just to add another 5501, as it would double our output capacity, and is the same engine so the same image quality / colour etc...

The KM salesrep is recommending (no big surprise) that we go to the new 6000 / 7000 - possibly just adding a 6000 or trading in the 5501 for 2 x 6000 (which i know is going to cost us big time as i would assume they wouldn't give us much trade in on the 5501)

So the trade in not really being an option, how much different is the output from the new 6000 vs the 5501 (could we print a clients job on one and then the other and they would notice a big difference ?)

The heavier weight duplex is very appealing which is why we are looking at the new series...

We have also spoken with Xerox who have come back with some very competitive pricing on the 700, but again, is the print quality going to be better / different so much so that it renders our 5501 useless ?

I know the Xerox is completely different engine which is probably going to cause many issues trying to run the 2 machines side by side, but with the pricing that Konica is offering at the moment the Xerox seems like a much better buy (i don't know why as Konica is normally cheaper ? well they were when we bought our first 5501 but they claim that we basically got the fiery for free as there was some EFI promotion or something ???)

We are in Australia by the way...

Any ideas ?

 

[richwitney]

We've just been through the same procedure - we are hitting 100k per month, so we've plumped for a KM C8000 - possibly more than you were looking to spend but there are some very good deals around at the moment.

 

[ScotJ]

We had a C6500 (not c6501) and our click charges recently increased.

We decided to get a 700, and not only did the savings in clicks completely offset our new lease payment on the 700; but the colour quality and saturation is WAY better. Not to mention solid black pieces that are just black clicks are as solid as running a complex black on the Konica.

Only short fall is that our local distro office is out of toner on occasion (and we're in Toronto).

Just my .02

Cheers

 

[graymatter]

WADR to ScotJ, the entire digital printer sales universe RUNS on the "not only did the savings in clicks completely offset our new lease payment" model.

The 6000/7000 is *much* better than the 6500, and if you want a really good machine and don't need scanning/copying, get the C70hc. High chroma toner POPS. Ask your dealer/branch for the comparison sample document.

 

[natty]

Xerox have just come back in with a great price on a 800, which we never thought we would make the leap to just yet, but the price is actually cheaper than the Konica 8000...

I think the Konica rep is not giving us the best pricing if this is the case, as i understand the Xerox 800 is a much better machine than the KM 8000 correct ?

 

[RKS]

Yes, the 800 is a much better machine. We just finished testing the 8000, Canon 7010vp & the 800. We ordered an 800 which will be installed in mid-September.

 

[kdonegan]

Xerox 800 cheaper? I have just received proposals on the Xerox 800 and KM8000,
If the base service charge is lumped in on the 800, it is more than double the price I received.for KM8000?
60 month FMV lease.

No doubt 800 the better machine but the pricing is not even close for us.

 

[RKS]

Yes, the 800 is more expensive, but the service, reliability, the clear toner are the deal makers.

 

[JustPrint!]

Xerox sales peeps are extremely desperate. I am getting hounded monthly from 3 different Xerox sales channel. And all these guys know that I hate Xerox with a passion but still calling... go figure.

So... great deals out there now. I couldn't believe how much Xerox is selling their equipment now. That means they were doing MAJOR price gouging back in the days!

 

[acacia print]

I am looking into this EXACT! scenario. A 6501, KM 6000 or a Fuji 700. What is the quality of the prints off these presses? In particular I want to use offset stocks NOT digital unless I have too. I have seen some samples from off the 700 and the solids were patchy and uneven... excuses were given but I am not impressed. Compared to what I have any of these will be better production wise, but I am concerned that the Fuji wont do solids well.

I gave the suppliers all the same stock to trial, only Fuji have come back so far and its not looking pretty. The stock was a 310g high bulk board (Which I know they are rated at only 300g) but I get this 310g stock through my Canon and it is only rated at 256g so it should be fine. They all said "no problem". The other stocks were a 135g gloss, a self adhesive stocks and some Laid card and paper to test a slight texture as well. Basically the 700 has failed to impress on its solids on the plain stock as well as the Laid. The laid was always going to be an issue but that is why I sent it.

I am waiting for samples from KM either off their 6000 or the 6501. Anyone running these presses? What can I expect? I am worried that I have done all this work to "Upgrade" when the quality will not be there. I have a Canon C1+ which is slow as, but it has a reasonable quality level. But it is SLOOOOW. We are talking about three SRA3 pages per minute in full colour. That is not a typo, 3 copies per minute! 20 seconds per copy! (Its drum rotates four times a copy/print) It also does not currently have a finisher.

 

[Steve0]

The KM C6000 has been supplanted by the C1060, with (among other features) richer toner formulations that should do well in solids. You may find a deal on a demo C6000, but do take a look at the new model.

 

[acacia print]

Thanks. I have not been offered the C1060, I am assuming that there isn't one available or that it is too expensive. We are growing our digital print turn over for sure but I think that we are still too small to make too much of a jump. Thinking ahead though if Konica have even better machines to offer then we at least have a path to progress along. Fuji have better presses too, but I remain concerned about the quality of the samples I received. I did give them a worst case scenario file to print with differing pages set up with greens reflex blues, oranges, graduated screens super small type reversed out type at that. But it was the plain solids on just a 310g high bulk card where it was let down which is where I thought that it might be seen to print at its best, not its worst. They said that they needed more stock to be able to set the press to each particular stocks peculiarity. But my cheaper Canon does it perfectly fine by just choosing heavy stock and then print! And the Canon is only rated at 256g not 300 like the 700 states.... Anyone have any better luck with their Fuji 700? I am sure it is a good press, but I can not fathom why they would bring over samples that are simply that poor...

 

[Steve0]

Great color doesn't just happen. Calibration is just the beginning. Media profiling is better. Engine maintenance is fundamental. So is using the right paper, and storing it in good climatic conditions. Temperature and humidity can also affect machine performance.

I'm not making excuses for anybody, but any vendor would be smart to take all of these factors into account when preparing quality samples.

 

[acacia print]

Thanks. I didn't give then the most perfect of conditioned stocks, but like I said my el cheapo Canon C1+ handles the stock just as I gave it to them so I expect at least a comparable result. We get some trouble with cold and or damp stocks, but its currently bone dry and 31 deg (Celsius) so that's a nice warm day in California, stinking hot if your from Siberia. The samples had roller marks through the solids as well. Now if the press was as hot to trot as they say then this shouldn't be seen. They have their own stocks to practice on with the file that I gave them, then the step across to what I gave them would only be a tweak, not a whole press reset...

 

[billp]

Yesterday we said goodbye to our old faithful 6500 and today have had installed a used c6000 (with service agreement as per new machine). We do about 20k sra3 pm. The ability to print 'banners' (ie 1200mm long) clinched the deal as this brings work back inhouse that weve been jobbing out. Click rate is also 25% less & fixed for 3 years, then 2.5 x inflation.

Interested to know how much improved the new c1060 is, from the specs appears incremental.

Point being we were always happy with the 6500, so the used c6000 with as new 5year service agreement was very attractive (we paid <$25k US, but I'd guess with the release of c1060 have dropped another $5k, I probably should have held out another month or 3...)

look for tradeins & negotiate a service agreement, but they (salesperson) need to know you are not looking at new, & ensure you also talking with xerox

cheers!

 

[acacia print]

Yesterday we said goodbye to our old faithful 6500 and today have had installed a used c6000 (with service agreement as per new machine). We do about 20k sra3 pm. The ability to print 'banners' (ie 1200mm long) clinched the deal as this brings work back inhouse that weve been jobbing out. Click rate is also 25% less & fixed for 3 years, then 2.5 x inflation.

Interested to know how much improved the new c1060 is, from the specs appears incremental.

Point being we were always happy with the 6500, so the used c6000 with as new 5year service agreement was very attractive (we paid <$25k US, but I'd guess with the release of c1060 have dropped another $5k, I probably should have held out another month or 3...)

look for tradeins & negotiate a service agreement, but they (salesperson) need to know you are not looking at new, & ensure you also talking with xerox

cheers!

hybridbloke what do you think of the 6000 is it a good press, pleased you like the 6500, but we are looking at the 6000 and keen to know if it is living up to your expectations.