Konica vs Xerox

[darmok]

Konica Minolta 6501 vs Fuji Xerox 700

Hi, I am new to the digital printing indsutry and I am trying to purchase a decent production machine but also at a decent price. I have looked at the KM 6501 and the Xerox 700. Has anyone got any suggestions? Are there other machines out there which are of a similar standard? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

I would type in Konica Minolta, 6501, Xerox, and 700 into the search forms feature. This topic has been covered many time.

The quick answer is go an test your files with your stock and determine what is right for your application.

 

[UberTech]

Just a heads up here for everyone.

Unless you have POSITIVE comments about the X700 DO NOT say anything unless you want to be up for slander.

 

[rsands]

we need to stop arguing about the BRANDS and get down to the actual POSITIVES AND NEGATIVES. If someone wants to say something bad about a Xerox 700, let them...thats the point in forums. Not pointed at your comment UberTech - Just noticed it recently on the forum getting worse - you would think some people here own Xerox or Konica Minolta the way they argue about it in the posts. For one i could start with the negatives:


- Check Reds and oranges across and SRA3 coated sheet (Xerox paper if you wish) and the machine can and DOES fade on the right side. we watched the showroom model do it...its common on a few Xerox machines. Even the Xerox Techs can't sort it.

- Check colour consistency over a run...its not too bad but does move a bit on certain colours.

- Registration...Xerox Techs here confirmed there was an intermitent Fiery problem which caused registration issues

- Lamination...doesn't work that well unless you use silk media or a massive digital laminator



KM6501...i am hoping to get a demo shortly on this one to test it thoroughly. I have seen samples and they were nice. Seems a good machine but can't comment until i get a proper look at it

 

[Ahmed Siddiqui]

Actually according your demand sometime you feel Xerox is better and sometime you feel Konica is better.

 

[GregNac19]

Just a heads up here for everyone.

Unless you have POSITIVE comments about the X700 DO NOT say anything unless you want to be up for slander.

Did you even read my post? I said you can say anything about; speeds, resolution, paper capacity, where they are made, what color the box is, etc.

I said it is slander and has no value in the real world to say, "Xerox is know to have better machines in the Demo rooms than in the field". I believe this is the the jist of what you said. I also said one salesman's view of color on a competitve machine means nothing in the real world either.

So Ubertech, if you what to work on some easy to fix products that don't require you break the machine all the way down to fix it, come look for an intern job with Xerox

 

[Craig]

To answer the OP's question HONESTLY we will need to know more about their application. Mainly what substrates do they intend to run. If they plan on running text weights, then the KM will work fine, I think it will be less than stellar if they are running 220-300gsm cover duplexed all day long.

I have nothing against KM, what I do find irritating is those who think the 6500/6501 is the answer to everyone's problem. Is the Xerox 700? No, it is obviously having issues as well. Every box has it's positives and negatives, your job is to line them up and find the box that fits your niche.

Do yourself a favor, look at ALL the options, not just Xerox and Konica Minolta.

 

[lfelton]

As mentioned, there's lots of information on the forum about the 6501 system 7 and the 700 already.

The OP had another question, should he consider anything else? My opinion is that there is nothing else in the Xerox 700 & KM 6501 system 7 price / performance range, although the Xerox 2xx range is well worth a look if you understand it's limitations.

Of "The Usual Suspects", there is only Canon left and they don't appear to have a directly competitive product (at 14ppm the ImagePress C1 is too slow for many applications). I think the MGI machine is quite a lot more expensive and nothing else (i.e. Toshiba, Sharp, Ricoh) currently makes a competitive machine in this area.

It would be useful to the OP if anyone who knows any different could post here?

I suppose that the OP might also want to take a look at the KM 65HC (High Chroma), which is apparently now released. I'd love to know how people are getting on with these and what applications they are finding that can justify the price hike over the standard machine. If the OP is contemplating photobook printing, I suspect the 65HC might be a a really good fit there.

Finally, this issue of saying that the KM "is good only for text weights" is a little overdone and I think could be a bit misleading to people researching machinery. A 6501 will happily sit there all day duplexing and stacking 250gsm (sorry, I don't know what that is in "American", maybe someone will chip in). 300gsm must go to the top tray, not the stacker and will only run simplex. It will not run at the full 65ppm on heavier weights. A Xerox 7000/AP or 8000/AP will duplex up to 300gsm, and run at their rated speeds, as will the VP versions of the Canon 6000/7000. However please be realistic! These are several times the price of a 700 or a 6501 and the OP did not ask us for a comparison to a machine costing 3-8 times the price! We run a single 6501 at well over 100,000 SRA3 impressions a month and I know we are nowhere near the higher volume users.

 

[xit791]

And what limitations should we be aware of?

 

[lfelton]

And what limitations should we be aware of?

If you're talking about Xerox 2xx machines, just search this forum. There's lots of information.

 

[UberTech]

So Ubertech, if you what to work on some easy to fix products that don't require you break the machine all the way down to fix it, come look for an intern job with Xerox

Read my profile, been there done that moved on.

I suppose that the OP might also want to take a look at the KM 65HC (High Chroma), which is apparently now released. I'd love to know how people are getting on with these and what applications they are finding that can justify the price hike over the standard machine. If the OP is contemplating photobook printing, I suspect the 65HC might be a a really good fit there.

We haven't seen one yet but from what I hear the HC will have a specific market as lfelton has pointed out. The toners are almost 'day glow' by themselves so in a normal P4P enviroment matching some colours (such as pantones) might be a bit harder to do than on a regular c6500. In saying that Pantones that were out of gamut may be fine.

Personally when I print a photo I like it to look as accurate as possible but my customers find there customers want punchy high contrast photos so colour accuracy goes out the window anyway.

 

[Bal digit]

if you want a KM 6501 demo, give me a buzz. Regards James 07967213788 or email [email protected]

we need to stop arguing about the BRANDS and get down to the actual POSITIVES AND NEGATIVES. If someone wants to say something bad about a Xerox 700, let them...thats the point in forums. Not pointed at your comment UberTech - Just noticed it recently on the forum getting worse - you would think some people here own Xerox or Konica Minolta the way they argue about it in the posts. For one i could start with the negatives:


- Check Reds and oranges across and SRA3 coated sheet (Xerox paper if you wish) and the machine can and DOES fade on the right side. we watched the showroom model do it...its common on a few Xerox machines. Even the Xerox Techs can't sort it.

- Check colour consistency over a run...its not too bad but does move a bit on certain colours.

- Registration...Xerox Techs here confirmed there was an intermitent Fiery problem which caused registration issues

- Lamination...doesn't work that well unless you use silk media or a massive digital laminator



KM6501...i am hoping to get a demo shortly on this one to test it thoroughly. I have seen samples and they were nice. Seems a good machine but can't comment until i get a proper look at it

 

[Whygen]

Hi Ifelton

Just wondered if you had any feedback on the 65HC - would be interested as how people are getting on with it and what appliations its being used for..?

tks

 

[lfelton]

Hi Ifelton

Just wondered if you had any feedback on the 65HC - would be interested as how people are getting on with it and what appliations its being used for..?

tks

Sorry, haven't heard any more. One of my lads told me that KM are going to use a different pricing model, i.e. you pay a click for the maintenance and also pay for the toner you use on top (I think he heard that on the advanced operator course). Can't really see a fit for it in our business.

How have you got on with printing greeting cards on your '01 (s?). That's the biggest PITA for us at the moment, apart from the RIP bugs. KM's solution for us is for us to buy another "bare bones" '01 with a catch tray! Not impressed with that one!

 

[Bal digit]

Would a konica 5500/6500/ cpp650 from the us from in the uk??

Would a konica 5500/6500/ cpp650 from the us from in the uk??

I thinking of exporting one to the uk, does anyone have any experience with this? Regards j

 

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

I thinking of exporting one to the uk, does anyone have any experience with this? Regards j

If you can't get a Konica in your area of the UK, try Oce they have Konica rebranded as Oce CS665.

 

[Dreece]

Does anyone have feed back on Xerox DC 252 vs Konica Minolta Bizhub C451?

 

[Dreece]

Does anyone have feed back on Xerox DC 252 vs Konica Minolta Bizhub C451

The price difference is astronomical!
But why?

 

[Craig]

Because the bizhub is an office copier, hence the name biz(short for business)hub(hardly usable, broken).

 

[UberTech]

Unless it says 'pro' somewhere in the title it's not for production. The c451 is a office copier if they are trying to pawn it off as a good fit for a business that makes money from printing you need to walk the other way quickly. Don't go any lower than c5501 if your into production printing.