looking for a new color copier (digital press)

[rbailleu]

Hi,

we used to have a clc950. we liked the quality of it, but the speed was too slow. so we bought a ir c3200. the speed is good, but the quality is not the greatest. I am looking at a xerox 252 or 260 to replace it. but we are considering a konica/minolta bishub 550. I am looking for any feed back on these or other comparable machines.

 

[LucianoSampaio]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

Well, i can say that the Xerox DC250 (Olympia is the inside name, IIRC) is a good machine. i used to run one under a Spire RIP a few months ago. good color, good speed. the only small drawback (which actually did not hinder my use of it in any way) was the not-so-good duplexing. since i used heavier stock and 13"x19", it did not matter to me, always duplexing "by hand" via bypass. the few times i tried to duplex automatically with lighter stock and smaller format sizes, the paper seemed to dance a little inside the press, having a radial registry error. apart from that, it´s quite awesome.

 

[The Element]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

I just installed a Xerox 260 and I cant say enough good things about this machine. I dont like color copiers as I come from the offset side of the business. I swore I would never buy another one but I was getting too many requests for jobs of less than 500 imps and could no longer compete on the DI. I saw some samples from the Xerox and they were VERY comparable to what I was getting off the DI press so I bought one. This is a truly amazing device for short run color. The fiery rip is awesome and the modularity is great especially if you are in a remote area. Fusers, drums, and toners are all operator installed in seconds.

 

[dkreppein]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

Rob:

The Bizhub is NOT a production color device. KM should be releasing a 5500 that is a slower version of their 6500. It is also sold by IKON as the CPP550. The Bizhub 550 is a business color machine comparable to your 3200. Good luck!

 

[cosmo]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

how much do you want to spend?

 

[rbailleu]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

I have been quoted prices all over the place. the 3200 is cheap. and the xerox is expensive. of course no one quotes prices for buying the machine. its all lease pricing we are paying 300/month on the 3200 and quotes range upto 1100/month on the xerox 242 with production finisher and bustled controller.

 

[dkreppein]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

Rob,

I must disclose that I am a color specialist for IKON, so I am clearly biased. That having been said, here are some questions you should ask of any/all suppliers you are looking at:

What kind of substrates can your machine run-coated/glossy/cardstock? Make sure they show you how they do it or give them a substantial amount to run. Anybody can make 1 good print, the proof will be in creating consistent and accurate output.

What kind of support is available after the sale? Anybody can sell you the tool, far fewer can support it and help you make money with it. Talk to the service manager, service techs, and especially other customers. Post sale support is critical in maintaining even a basic color workflow.

What is the maximum recommended monthly volume for your machine? You don't want to buy too much capacity, but you don't want to max out the machine 2 years before your lease is up either.

How does your machine handle these types of files? Bustled controllers have come a long way in terms of RIP speed and color accuracy, but they may not be able to handle complex postscript files with lots of layering.

Make sure you look at the total cost of ownership, and get a good handle on how easy the whole system is to use. A cheap cost per copy is no good if you have to run 10 sheets to get 5 saleable ones.

Good luck!

 

[rbailleu]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

I get the whole trial thing. we have never had a perfect experience with copiers or copier sales organizations. the reason I have never considered ikon in the p ast was they send in the blonds. Its nothing personal, but I have trouble buying a copier from a young gal 22-30. weighs 80 lbs soaking wet.
but I digress. my decision is get a high quality machine for $1000/month or stick with the 3200 for $300/ month. at 5000 copies/ month the xerox will cost about $.26/copy. the 3200 is about $.15/copy I can say with out a doubt that the copies that were output at graphexpo I ranked the quality as follows. canon irc3220/5185 lowest. ikon/konica 650? much better. canon small imagepress about the same as konica. xerox 242/252/260 best.

but I really want to know what others think. I would like it if someone( even the sales guy) could point out how they think their machine is better. I would like a quality improvement but I am juggling price concerns.

 

[kdonegan]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

Hi
We are running
Xerox 240 w/ bundled EFI and Konica 6500 w/ Creo
I find the output quality to be similar overall. Bought the Xerox 2 years ago and the Konica Jan07. Price was similar
For me, the Minolta is more productive (i prefer the creo rip as well)
Xerox strengths - better type quality with higher dpi - operator replaceable drums and fuser -
Minolta strengths - duplex much higher weights so more productive in my opinion

If I were to change something I would have added the 12x18 paper tray instead of the multipurpose tray for Xerox and went with the creo controller. We run almost all work on 12x18

We are currently evaluating the Presstek 34DI as a possible addition.

good luck with your research
Kevin

 

[[email protected]]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

Look at the TruePress344. It is a real offset press not a waterless copier Consider the service also!!!!
Also all the extra electric and special room mod's you will have to do.
The DI needs a Space Shuttle envoirment to operate with out toning etc.

 

[Ahmed Ismail]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

Rob,

Do yourself a favor and call Bill Killgore at 231-938-9591 and feel free to use my name. He can guide you on the Xerox in either a purcashe or a lease scenario.

He is the most honest copier rep I have ever met.

 

[fnovinc]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

Take a look at the MGI Press.

www.mgi-usa.com

This is a unique product.

 

[[email protected]]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

Frank that looks pretty cool. Any more info on cost to use? I would love to do a online table of costs per sheet for a new press.
Like TRUE COST of DI waterless copier to toner to inkjet, and to a real printing press vs. the dirty digitals.

 

[rbailleu]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

kevin

thank for the details. good info.

if your looking at a new di. consider a used 4 color conventional.
we had a qmdi it was great. could print plastics and vinyls, but the speed and quality on some offset papers was not so great. we traded up to a heidelberg sm52-4h it is more work to run vinyl and plastic, but the speed on papers is wonderful. try keeping a di running at 10- 12iph. we have run ncr @ 10,000iph

 

[k_graham]

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[Brad Eastman]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

Look at the Xerox 5000,it has been great for us also how is your Xitron rip treating you, we put on ein 2 weeks ago and it is not working.

 

[dipressforum]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

How does the Xerox 5000 compare with the Xerox 7000? Does the 5000 have streaking problems like the earlier docucolors.

Thanks
Shawn

 

[Digital Man]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

Depending on the application and speed, check out the Canon ImagepressC 1 or the Canon C7000. They both have relvolutionary technolgy and was Canon's largest R& D investment in the history of the company. A huge amount of placements in the Chicago area.

 

[rbailleu]

Re: looking for a new color copier (digital press)

the canon c1 and 7000 seem to pricey for smaller operations. the few cards I get in the mail from c7000's in chicago don't seem to impress me. variable data is nice but if the card does not look great whats the point. we decided on an ikon cpp500. It has been wonderfull. In 3 months the service guys have never been here. we have had some jam ups on 20 # running ltr (R) to staple as a book. 28/70# fixed this. this has happened on other copiers could be the paper or the weather.

 

[xit791]

I'll take a shot at getting in touch with you, rbaillue, how's the cpp500 1+ years down the road? I am going to look at one next week. thanks.