Losing dots in film

[kburton]

Hello,

Our company still uses film from our Agfa Phoenix 2000, we are having an issue where we are losing dots in the highlight area. I have calibrated the imagesetter to be linear and still losing Dots.

My question is, if we set up our imagesetter to as close to a G7 press-curve, will this take care of our problem?

 

[prepresscolor]

I found, years ago, that sometimes you

I found, years ago, that sometimes you

Must adjust your entry numbers for the computer to give you the "highlight" dots you want. You may have to adjust the ramp of numbers two or three times to get what you want. Watch your "shadow" area too so it does not gain too heavy.

Hello,

Our company still uses film from our Agfa Phoenix 2000, we are having an issue where we are losing dots in the highlight area. I have calibrated the imagesetter to be linear and still losing Dots.

My question is, if we set up our imagesetter to as close to a G7 press-curve, will this take care of our problem?

 

[kburton]

Must adjust your entry numbers for the computer to give you the "highlight" dots you want. You may have to adjust the ramp of numbers two or three times to get what you want. Watch your "shadow" area too so it does not gain too heavy.

Are you talking about the numbers for the linearization or for the press-curve?

 

[kburton]

Anyone have any other suggestions or answers?

 

[meddington]

You'd need to address the issue of dot loss (possibly exposure or processing related?) prior to any curve compensation.

 

[kburton]

The Dot loss also shows up in the RIP before imaging is done, so I don't know what my next step is.

 

[Joe Duffy]

Start a curve over from scratch.
Output a uncalibrated strip and read it and then check the image. The calibration can corrupt over time if you have made several moves to it to tweek it.

 

[kburton]

Start a curve over from scratch.
Output a uncalibrated strip and read it and then check the image. The calibration can corrupt over time if you have made several moves to it to tweek it.

Ok I just setup a new linear curve and the calibration test came out really good, but when I send over a file I am still getting the blown out/dot loss in the same areas, what do I do now?

 

[gordo]

Are you positive that the tones are in the file itself?

Gordo

 

[maxon]

The Dot loss also shows up in the RIP before imaging is done

Make sure the Phoenix itself is within specs using test patterns. Do incoming files contain RGB or CMYK images ? Turn off color management in rip and retest. If it doesn't cure the problem write down essential data or back up rip critical settings and reinstall the Taipan or Apogee whatever you have there, will take at least one day to put back everything into place from scratch. Good luck.

 

[kburton]

Are you positive that the tones are in the file itself?

Gordo

Gordo,

Yes the file has the tones there, they print to our inkjet correctly but not to our Rip, which is an EagleRip 4.0.

 

[kburton]

Make sure the Phoenix itself is within specs using test patterns. Do incoming files contain RGB or CMYK images ? Turn off color management in rip and retest. If it doesn't cure the problem write down essential data or back up rip critical settings and reinstall the Taipan or Apogee whatever you have there, will take at least one day to put back everything into place from scratch. Good luck.

Maxon,

I have checked the Phoenix with the test patterns and they are correct. All files that are set to the Rip are CMYK images. I am unfamiliar with the terms 'Taipan' or 'Apogee' can you explain to me what those are?

 

[Joe Duffy]

If you create a document with the same tones and send it does it come out correct? This will pinpoint if it is the file.
Have you tried imaging the file direct from the rip itself?
Are you sending a pdf or native ps file?
Is it in a composite send or seperation?

Need more info to help you pinpoint the issue.

 

[kburton]

If you create a document with the same tones and send it does it come out correct? This will pinpoint if it is the file.
Have you tried imaging the file direct from the rip itself?
Are you sending a pdf or native ps file?
Is it in a composite send or seperation?

Need more info to help you pinpoint the issue.

Joe,

Yes I have tried creating a different file in, Photoshop, InDesign and Illustrator and I get the same result.
I have sent a PDF of the file from the Rip and same issue.
We normally send native files to the Rip.
It is done as a Separation.

 

[Joe Duffy]

Create an entire new page setup with the new calibration curve you created. Do not duplicate the existing one but create a entire new one and see what you get. Almost seems like it is applying a second calibration curve after your initial one, possible a press calibration? Not sure just fishing.
Also, make sure your calibration and page setup are set to use the same dot shapes.
Also, try setting up the rip to accept a composite file that it seperates and see if oyu get the same result.

 

[kburton]

Create an entire new page setup with the new calibration curve you created. Do not duplicate the existing one but create a entire new one and see what you get. Almost seems like it is applying a second calibration curve after your initial one, possible a press calibration? Not sure just fishing.
Also, make sure your calibration and page setup are set to use the same dot shapes.
Also, try setting up the rip to accept a composite file that it seperates and see if oyu get the same result.

Joe,

Yes there is a press curve setup in the Rip, actually it has 3 curves, 'Calibration Curve', 'Intended Press Curve' & 'Actual Press Curve'. The intended and actual are using the same curve.

 

[Joe Duffy]

Joe,

Yes there is a press curve setup in the Rip, actually it has 3 curves, 'Calibration Curve', 'Intended Press Curve' & 'Actual Press Curve'. The intended and actual are using the same curve.

If you rip it without the other 2 curved in place and view how does it look?

 

[kburton]

If you rip it without the other 2 curved in place and view how does it look?

Joe,

When I Rip the file without those 2 curves it comes out looking pretty good. So it looks like our press curves were wrong

 

[Joe Duffy]

Glad to hear you have found out what it is, now just run a file to plate and on press and recreate the press curve and back in business!

 

[kburton]

Joe,

Thank you for helping me locate my issue, I really appreciate it. Also like to thank everyone else for their input aswell.