Mac or PC?

[Red_Right_Arm]

Currently our Prepress department is Mac based. But besides our three computers, every other computer in the entire company is a PC. This means that our Macs don't have access to certain servers, can't use the MIS system, can't connect to our RIP, and can't use certain files that are common to others in our company. Even our IT guy only really knows how to use PCs. My vote is that as our Macs begins to get old, to start replacing them with PCs so we can work more seamlessly in with the rest of the company. But I've received resistance.

The Esko and Adobe suite all work the same on Macs and PCs. There really shouldn't be much about the switch that would effect our ability to use our graphic programs. So, besides the keyboard shortcuts, window interface being different, and personal preference, is there really any significant advantage to using Macs over PCs in a Prepress environment?

 

[Gianni_S]

HI, here my 2 cents:
both systems have pro and cons; in one hand we have mac with a stable and reliable (well, not so convinced on latest versions) operating system, on the other hand we have a more "connected" architecture and best hardware based on windows.
To tell the truth I can't see a big difference using one or another in a prepress environment, starting from the point that operative software (Adobe, Esko and so on) are the same over both systems.
If you have an IT guy who can support you when facing on problems in WIN, personally I'd choose to land there with the whole company. But it is only my personal idea.
I had your same doubt when I upgraded 9 months ago, and frankly speaking… I have wasted a lot of money buying those ashtrays called MacPro! (Sorry but I don't love them so much)
The optimum would be to have pc component (and costs) with Mac System… they call it HACKINTOSH, but I have never seen one of them in a production environment.

 

[james.hobbs00]

Pros and Cons of Mac:

- Macs have a built-in program called BootCamp, which allows you to install Windows, Linux or other operating systems in addition to OS X. Setting up a dual boot system in OS X is infinitely easier than it is in Windows. It’s also super easy to switch between the two operating systems.

- Macs work better with other Apple products in terms of software. This includes features like Handoff, iMessage, iCloud, iCloud Drive, iCloud Photo Library, iCloud Keychain, Find My iPhone, etc. Microsoft has tried to copy this, but only partially.

- Macs are less complicated and more intuitive to use. This is a very debatable point and the reason why I also list it as a con in the section below. If you’ve always been a Windows user, it can initially be counter-intuitive to use, however, I’ve found that it’s more logical once you get used to it.

- Even though Macs can get viruses or malware, the number of threats is still significantly less than for Windows just because the Windows base is so much larger.

- Almost all new PCs come installed with loads of bloatware from PC manufacturers, which requires manual removal. Mac computers have pre-installed software, but only from Apple and they don’t slow down your system. If you’re technically savvy, this is a non-issue, otherwise it can be a major nuisance.

- Apple has excellent customer support, AppleCare warranty programs, and exclusive Apple Stores where you can take your Mac or other Apple products for repairs, training or other issues.

- Macs are sleek and visually appealing. To get something close from PC manufacturers usually ends up negating the higher cost factor for Apple products.

- Speaking of cost, Macs are more expensive than PCs, but they also hold their resale value far better than PCs.

- Apple computers have some of the highest customer satisfaction rates in the industry. When you purchase a Mac, you are getting a high-quality machine. This can be true for PCs also, but with so many manufacturers and configurations, getting the best quality can be more difficult.

- Macs tend to be a bit more innovative in design and features. For example, Macs include Thunderbolt, USB Type C ports, multi-touch trackpads, force touch, keyboard backlighting and more.

- Macs can read NTFS or FAT formatted hard drives. Windows cannot read Mac formatted drives unless you install a third-party program.

- The iMac, the only Mac desktop other than the Mac Pro, is an all-in-one computer that you can get with a 4K or 5K display, something that really doesn’t exist in the Windows market at all unless you get an ultra-expensive custom rig. There is the HP Envy, but it isn’t as good as the iMac.

 

[james.hobbs00]

Pros and Cons of Windows PC:

- PCs are manufactured by many different companies, resulting in a huge selection of devices with a wide variation in prices. With Apple, you have only a few choices with set prices. In terms of desktops, Apple has only one geared towards consumers, so if the cost is prohibitive, a Windows desktop will be a much better choice.

- PCs are more up-gradable and configurable. On Macs, you can usually only upgrade the RAM or hard drive and that’s it. Pretty much every component on a desktop PC can be switched out. When purchasing PCs, you also have a lot more options that you can configure including processors, cases, memory, hard drives, ports, displays, etc.

- Overall, there is a lot more software available for Windows than for PC. The opposite is true when you look at smartphones, but we’re talking about computers here. There is usually an equivalent Mac program for every Windows app, but they are not always as good.

- Windows based PCs may have greater backwards compatibility. A five year old PC can easily run Windows 10 without any issue. A five year old Mac can run the latest version of OS X, but half the features will be missing and things don’t run as smoothly. For some reason, you always need the latest Mac in order to utilize all the new features in OS X.

- PCs are the absolute best option when it comes to gaming. Macs simply do not come with as powerful graphics cards, even high-end machines like the Mac Pro.

- Worldwide, most computers are PCs and Windows is the most popular operating system by far. This means the community is much larger and you can get more support for software and hardware.

- In terms of accessories, PCs have a lot more options and those options are usually cheaper.

- Though OS X is simpler, that’s not always the best for some people. Windows is more complex and powerful than OS X.

- PCs can be configured with hardware that Apple considers obsolete. Some newer Apple machines don’t even come with CD/DVD drives. It also seems Apple keeps reducing the number of ports on each newer machine. The new Macbook has one USB port and one headphone jack and that’s it.

- PCs work great with a whole slew of other products too. For example, you can stream your Xbox or PlayStation games to Windows.

 

[prepressdork]

To add to what James said:

1. The investment to add Windows to your Mac is far less than buying a new PC. You can get VMware Fusion or Parallels plus a Windows license for less than half what a decent PC will cost and you get the added benefit of having two operating systems running at the same time. Plus, with the tools that are supplied with VMware Fusion and Parallels, you can copy files by dragging from your Mac desktop to your Windows desktop. Seamless! And of course, you can install whatever software you need into Windows so that you can access your RIP or other printing-industry specific systems.
2. You absolutely CAN connect to ANY PC. All you need is a user name and password plus necessary shares/permissions. With my Mac, I can connect to ANY Windows-based PC or server in the building. The key is using the SMB protocol to connect (smb://IP address/share). Need to access the C drive on a PC or server, no problem (smb://IP address/c$) - you'll need administrative permissions to do the latter of course.
3. As James mentioned, Mac's CAN read NTFS or FAT-formatted drives and CAN write to FAT-formatted drives but cannot (at least without 3rd party software) write to NTFS-formatted drives but I believe this only applies to local drives/partitions in the local computer (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Cheers,
pd

 

[dabob]

Boy . . you do know how to kick the hornet's nest . . . Asking the age old question . . MAC or Windows . . . while I am an admittedly a MAC bigot you would have to look at the incoming files to really determine what would be best for you - In my shops workflow Adobe and Mac provide 95% of our incoming files so MAC is the way we go . . . also for long term cost of ownership I think that the MAC is superior unless you already have a Windows/Networking expert on staff. The Mac's initial cost of ownership is arguably more expensive over the years it averages out.

but if you really want to see some arguments about this, take a look back at past forum topics here about it . . . here's one that was not too long ago

http://tinyurl.com/gkwbtut

 

[Dov Isaacs]

FWIW, I've been using Windows, Macintosh, and even UNIX systems since the year gimmel.

I believe you should choose Macintosh or Windows based on what you like and feel comfortable with, but please, let's avoid the Mac fanboy mishagoss! This is roughly akin to arguing over whether a Lexus or a BMW is the only way to drive.

The best Windows-based systems are every bit as good as the best MacOS-based systems in terms of features and reliability. Lenovo ThinkPad P50 and P70 mobile workstations match and exceed anything currently offered by Apple if you are looking for quality, performance, and features. Which MacBook Pro still offers a 17" screen? Up to 128GB of memory? A Xeon processor? A built-in XRite screen calibrator? Up to 5TB of SSD?) Lenovo's ThinkStation P710 can be easily configured to exceed anything that you can put into the now fairly outdated Mac Pro as a desktop workhouse. I know of no hardware that Apple offers that isn't available on high end Windows systems.

In terms of applications, all Adobe applications run quite well on Windows and without the problems of the yearly MacOS updates that often significantly arbitrarily break application compatibility. With the exception of a few features requiring OS and/or MS Office integration, the Windows and MacOS versions of Adobe applications are functionally equivalent.

Ultimately, this is really a personal choice!

- Dov

 

[wonderings]

I like both OS's, but for work I prefer Mac OS. I love my 5k iMac, amazing screen, fast and very little trouble. I did the opposite, we had all PC's here when I started with one Mac for Quark. Over the years I switched everything to Mac save for our RIP PC and a tiff catcher PC which do one thing and run on Windows XP. I maintain all the tech here, and my headaches went right down when I finally got away from Windows PC's. Now I rarely have a problem to solve that is not fixed by restarting. For me, it all comes down to preference. If you like Windows and work efficient in it then go with Windows, and same for MacOS. The one nice thing about Adobe CC is you do not have buy a specific version of the software for your OS. We had money invested in the Adobe CS for Mac that switching to Windows would have been expensive, at least the one time, to move to Windows.

We don't have any crazy network stuff going on here, but never had an issue connecting to Windows 7 or Windows 10 from a Mac.

 

[Tim-Ellis]

Maybe ten years ago it would have been difficult to run PC only prepress department. Now software and fonts work equally well on both systems most of the time. Today there is no reason why you cannot or must not switch.

​​​​Let's be honest, Apple no longer regard print as one of the cornerstones of their business. They've moved on.

If you need to cut costs, research by IBM shows that Macs are cheaper in the long-term. However, if you have to use PC only software then you need a solution. I hated boot camp and I hated Parallel. My advice is get your department a cheap PC and use a service like "Team viewer" or "Log me in" to access it and do all your PC only stuff there. The PC can be in a cupboard or a different room. You can access it from home if you need to. The whole team can access the same machine (clashes allowing).

Out of curiosity, what are the files that your Mac cannot handle but the PC can?

 

[Red_Right_Arm]

Out of curiosity, what are the files that your Mac cannot handle but the PC can?

Mainly stuff used by our MIS system through Microsoft Access. But then there is an entire company server we can't have access to without a PC. And there are things like workflow diagrams and procedure documents made in a PC only program. Aside from that it starts to become an issue with using pieces of hardware because we need a PC to run the software. Our Betaflex, RIP, and OLP all need PCs. But I like your TeamViewer idea. I may look into that as a solution.

 

[yourdesigns]

We used Virtual PC with a Windows operating system loaded on it to use our Access database. It worked great, although a tad slower than a real PC.

 

[pauly92]

You really just answered your own question.
Your IT guy is windows guy.
Your macs don't work with your windows servers.
So replace your macs with PCs.

Or are you going to replace more of your windows stuff with macs? and replace your IT guy also?

Build your own PC - no bloatware. cheaper also.
Dells have no bloatware. I have 2 of them even my dell laptop no bloatware. (you install it separately if you want it)

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Build your own PC - no bloatware. cheaper also.
Dells have no bloatware. I have 2 of them even my dell laptop no bloatware. (you install it separately if you want it)

This. Dell has really come back into the playing field the last 5-6 years. All of our work desktops besides our Mac design stations are Dell, and my laptop at home is a Dell as well. No bull***** they just run.

Edit: But I do make it a practice to reinstall the OS clean right when I take the desktop or laptop out of the box.

 

[pauly92]

This. Dell has really come back into the playing field the last 5-6 years. All of our work desktops besides our Mac design stations are Dell, and my laptop at home is a Dell as well. No bull***** they just run.

Edit: But I do make it a practice to reinstall the OS clean right when I take the desktop or laptop out of the box.

Yep. Dells support is great also. I had to reformat one of my Dells and i couldn't find the CDs. Gave them a call and in the next few days i had new CDs in my mail box.
I also got step by step instructions over the phone by a tech to help me install some of the drivers that let me have multiple hard drives (similar to RAID, but it isn't) As they know my Specs and he made sure i knew everything about installing all the drivers ect.

I have a dell XPS13 Laptop that i use for work purposes. Photoshop ect. (ok it's not the best laptop for graphic design as its not no dedicated graphics card, but it works well for me) no bloat ware. You choose before you order it online what you want on it. Even the windows package.

 

[Point918]

Use whatever platform works for you and your processes. I rarely see designers using PC's unless they are in a large corporate environment. I won't use anything but a Mac for prepress work but it's what I know after 30 plus years. Find OS X to be a much more elegant, trouble free environment than any Windows PC. Have never had IT support with this model; have never needed it. Factor that into your ROI.

Have always been in a mixed environment with PC servers and RIPS. With a small amount of effort they all play very nicely together.

Nonsense that Apple has moved on from the print market. It may not be the focus it once was but I don't see any PC makers with a specific concentration in print. Apple has grown and diversified as all successful mature tech businesses do. Plenty of software for both platforms.
Face it our market has shrunk and continues to do so.

In terms of performance the focus by hardware makers is on video editing and other more intensive needs than our relatively static images.
You don't really need a high end computer to do much of our work anymore.

From a support standpoint the Apple stores are a pretty good resource and they will diagnosis problems at no charge, in or out of warranty. Yes you do need to bring the device to them which only works if you have one nearby.

 

[prepressdork]

While we are on this subject, how does one get old Postscript Type 1 fonts to work in a Windows environment (assuming no font management app like Suitcase (perhaps Suitcase isn't enough?))?

Thanks,
pd

 

[DYP]

Really now, I have used both for over 20 years. Maybe it is just me, but Windows, yes I am forced to use it mostly for RIPs and that is more than I want to. Just had to reboot one of the Fiery RIP again. Seems like this needs to be every couple of days. A lot of down time dealing with Windows and how does one even trust to access the internet with one. I am not going to argue with anyone about this but Windows has been such a major PITA I try to avoid it when ever possible.

 

[PrintIT]

Really now, I have used both for over 20 years. Maybe it is just me, but Windows, yes I am forced to use it mostly for RIPs and that is more than I want to. Just had to reboot one of the Fiery RIP again. Seems like this needs to be every couple of days. A lot of down time dealing with Windows and how does one even trust to access the internet with one. I am not going to argue with anyone about this but Windows has been such a major PITA I try to avoid it when ever possible.

I think the reboots are more of a Fiery issue than a Windows issue.
I have Fiery's that I've just gotten in the habit of shutting down at the end of the day because they need to be rebooted so often.
But I have a Windows server that I need to reboot maybe once every 3 or 4 months.

 

[DYP]

No more that rebooted it and then when a calibration target was read in FCP hangs and have force quit it in task manager. I think one of my biggest issues is I go to fast for Windows. I always have to remember that I have to slow down when using Windows and things seem to go better without so many hangs.

 

[DYP]

So I have time to rant some more. Rebooting the wide format RIP now. Next money spent of a wide format RIP is going to be Caldera. Well it going to be a long day thanks to f-ing Windows.