Metrix by LithoTechnics

[jbbbarr]

It is always the estimators fault...

It is always the estimators fault...

If the product does not fit the sheet you need to hit the estimator over the head and tell him to stop getting high before work. This is the most retarded thing I ever heard.

I have been in prepress since 1990, and have been doing estimating with ePace for the last year, and it is never the software's fault. Numbers never lie only people lie. If you do not put in the correct numbers then you are lying to the software.

I took a look at MorningFlight and this is extremely basic at best, it could never work in a mid sized (10 mil + shop), where you have complicated prepress and postpress (bindery, diecut, mail, digital print, variable data and so on). This is not any where near the functionality and customization of ePace, it looks to be for the quickprint market soley. I am not a Metrix user and do not need software to tell me how to optimize a job or how to do gang runs. If you cannot figure these things out with your current tools I can see to where reliance on the software could be very misleading. Even with ePace you have to look at the NUMBERS, even an expensive package will get the numbers ##4@% up. That is why we built a custom Access form to extrapolate the pertinent data from ePace's tables and it gives us a quick look at real info, if you do not know what you are looking for there is no software on the planet that can help you.

I am sure a package like Metrix could be of assistance in generating Preps templates, but in reality everything is so fast now and if your prepress operators cannot figure out how to setup a job based on your shops preferences and ink optimization you need a new prepress dude. There is really no excuse for the stupid mistakes that come out of estimating or prepress, "The Problem Exists Between The Chair And The Keyboard".

 

[Morning Flight]

This is the most retarded thing I ever heard.

Really, jbbbarr? You need to get out more. There is a whole world of gloriously dumb arguments waiting on every corner. Seeing you actually downloaded Morning Flight and gave the program a quick look-see, I can't help but overlook the retard crack.

However! First you say “Numbers never lie, only people lie,” and then you counter with “even an expensive package will get the numbers screwed up.” Somewhere in there, I think you’re making my case.

Obviously, when the estimator puts in 8.5 x 111 instead of 8.5 x 11, any system will get the numbers wrong. That wasn’t my point. Cory’s complaint was that you “sometimes have to wonder how a job was estimated when it won't physically fit on the sheet.” No estimating program on the planet should let you do that. Even when you enter 8.5 x 111, the software has to come up with a matching sheet size. More than that, if that sheet is too big for your presses, it should tell you so.

I stand by what I said earlier, if a program lets you quote an 8.5 x 111 job on an 11 x 17 sheet, that’s not the estimator’s fault, it's the software’s. Yes, the estimator made a mistake, but it’s the program’s job to catch it. No automated system is worth a damn without adequate fail-safe.

MorningFlight is extremely basic at best, it could never work in a mid-sized (10 mil + shop), where you have complicated prepress and postpress (bindery, die-cut, mail, digital print, variable data and so on). This is not anywhere near the functionality and customization of ePace, it looks to be for the quickprint market solely.

I know we’re going off-topic here, but I’d like to respond to that if I may before getting back to Metrix.

Yes, jbbbarr, Morning Flight is basic (though hardly "extremely" so - just basic enough to make it easy for even part-time estimators to use). And you're right, the program isn't designed for a 10 mil+ shop, which is why we’re not positioning it against ePace. We clearly define the market we serve as small to mid-size in our advertising. Morning Flight’s cost is from forever-free to a high end of $585.00. ePace, according to Nick N’s February 2008 post on this forum: “Our E-Pace system came. Cost $80,000.00.”

But basic doesn't mean underpowered, nor is ease of use synonymous with simplistic. Morning Flight actually does do all of the things you said it’s incapable of doing, save for mail. Even the Free Edition includes bindery, die-cut, digital print, and variable data. Step up to the soon to be released $48.00 Passport Edition and you get unlimited, roll-your-own prepress, postpress, and packaging. Customize away.

Incidentally, I would hardly call ten million the low end of the mid-sized market. Two million, more like it. To quote Cary Sherburne, writing in the July 30th, 2008 edition of WhatTheyThink: ”With the acquisition of ePACE, EFI has restructured its MIS portfolio to address three relatively discrete market segments, with its high-end Hagen product primarily focused on the $25+ million firms, PrintSmith focused on the sub-$2 million companies, and ePACE targeted at the mid-market."

For what it’s worth, ePACE has 500 active customers, Morning Flight is approaching 5,000.

But back to Metrix:

I am sure a package like Metrix could be of assistance in generating preps templates, but in reality everything is so fast now and if your prepress operators cannot figure out how to setup a job based on your shops preferences and ink optimization you need a new prepress dude.

Just because you can travel from New York to San Francisco on a bicycle, who would want to? Especially if the “Dude” doing the riding gets paid by the hour. In the end, that’s what it comes down to - numbers, ROI. Contrary to what you may believe, Jbbbarr, numbers can lie, sometimes a lot, but the one number you can trust absolutely is how much cash is left in the till on payday.

If Metrix can make the prepress operator’s job faster and easier, and make your accountant smile in the process, taking the free trial should be a no-brainer. Provided, of course, that the shop generates enough volume to make a layout program pay for itself in relatively short order.

Hal Heindel
Unitac - Who we are

 

[Morning Flight]

Since that reply we have purchased Metrix. And like I said in a later reply, it's great for estimating and planning, but falls short in the prepress area.

Interesting! Here I thought it would be the other way around: Strong on prepress, and maybe planning the work already in house, but weak on estimating. I think of Metrix as primarily a layout tool. For the life of me I can't can't visualize where, for ganged runs especially (supposedly one of the program's greatest strengths), planning enters the picture when you're still estimating.

It will be interesting to see where Metrix positions itself in your shop, T, after you've worked with it a few months.

Hal Heindel
www.morningflight.com

 

[ErnieLail]

I feel like Metrix works great with a JDF workflow like apogeeX. We've been using it since my original post and everything works great. We dont use it for estimating, we only use the dollar amounts to judge which way is most cost effective to gang.

 

[T]

I feel like Metrix works great with a JDF workflow like apogeeX. We've been using it since my original post and everything works great. We dont use it for estimating, we only use the dollar amounts to judge which way is most cost effective to gang.

We use the JDF WF end, also. How do you place your press marks?

T

 

[ErnieLail]

We created our own color bars (3 or 4 different ones for different sizes), reg & guide marks. Imported them into our database. Then set up a marks set for our reg & guide marks.

Then when we have finished with the layout we add our custom marks set, then place the color bar manually. We then export to a hotfolder on the AX server. It then creates a job ticket, rips and comes out looking fine everytime so far.

The only problem i have had is when i edit the job while its in the middle of rendering (to convert spot colors, run actionlists, ect.) it will sometimes lose its marks. Not all the time, i think it may be some sort of apogee bug.

 

[proformasourcedotcom]

How much does Metrix do?

How much does Metrix do?

My first Post! I have this burning question about Metrix that I have not been able to get answered:

All of the Metrix training videos and images for gang-runs show the jobs being imposed as multi-colored imposition diagrams. Do you then have to import that template into Illustrator or something to add the art or can you upload the individual art files right into Metrix to have it create a print-ready PDF?

I would really like to be able to upload a bunch of postcards and have it spit me a out a fully imposed, print-ready PDF of a press-sheet. Is this what it does, or am I just a dreamer?

Thanks in advance!!

 

[ErnieLail]

I usually export a JDF into our apogeeX workflow, then match up the PDFs from our page store to the intended die position.

But Metrix also has the ability to link each die position to a file, then you can export an imposed PDF. I dont have any experience with it though, so im not sure how well it works.

 

[splenguin]

Imposed PDFs

Imposed PDFs

I'm probably not the best one to answer this, since we use Metrix to output JDFs to Prinergy, but Metrix will do what you described. You can create a product, assign a content file to it, impose the product to a press sheet, add marks, and dump the whole shootin' match out to a PDF file, imposed to either the press sheet or the plate, with user-defined settings for crop marks, fold marks, and trim and bleed line indicators.

-joe in mpls