MGI vs Indigo
- Thread starter elfidito
- Start date
Hi, cant comment you countrys situation, but in general... MGI is a better product if you have many different kinds of jobs, envelopes, plastics, magnets, thick materials... on the other hand if your jobs are leaflets, normal low grammage papers etc Indigo might be good choice..
jagga.neeraj
New member
Indigo is always better
Indigo is always better
HP Indigo S2000
is specially designed for plastics from 200 to 600 microns
otherwise HP Indigo 5500
is designed for paper substrates ranging from 60 to 400 gsm or 450 microns
here are some good reasons to buy HP Indigo
1) Indigo is the only Digital Press in the world which is based on offset architecture (Plate – Blanket – Impression Cylinders)
2) Indigo works on a unique patent technology of Liquid Electro Ink, In which Ink pigments are translucent and actually are offset pigments. this is a video on Liquid ink Vs Powder tonner (YouTube - HPIndigovsTheOthers)
3) Offers a complete range of pantones for spot color printing, which is not available in any other digital machine
4) Photo inks is another unique feature in HP Indigo 5500 which helps to print better photography products like albums
5) Thick substrate kit (optional) in HP Indigo allows you to print jobs up to 450 microns (approx 400 plus gsm)
6) High DPI printing allows Indigo to print as fine as 0.423 point size text for security applications
7) color printing ensures the accuracy of color and perfect color matching vis-Ã -vis offset printing up till 97 %
8) The press is structurally based on Ryobi offset machine chassis which makes it very heavy and robust (no plastic part, only metal) work-horse
9) Widest variety of paper stock, like textured, metallic, non tear-able, transparency, etc. can be printed on Indigo
10) White Ink is new added advantage to create high quality Tags, Designed Photo Albums, Printing on Transparent material
so go ahead with Indigo and dont get confused by people with half information
Regards
Indigo is always better
HP Indigo S2000
is specially designed for plastics from 200 to 600 microns
otherwise HP Indigo 5500
is designed for paper substrates ranging from 60 to 400 gsm or 450 microns
here are some good reasons to buy HP Indigo
1) Indigo is the only Digital Press in the world which is based on offset architecture (Plate – Blanket – Impression Cylinders)
2) Indigo works on a unique patent technology of Liquid Electro Ink, In which Ink pigments are translucent and actually are offset pigments. this is a video on Liquid ink Vs Powder tonner (YouTube - HPIndigovsTheOthers)
3) Offers a complete range of pantones for spot color printing, which is not available in any other digital machine
4) Photo inks is another unique feature in HP Indigo 5500 which helps to print better photography products like albums
5) Thick substrate kit (optional) in HP Indigo allows you to print jobs up to 450 microns (approx 400 plus gsm)
6) High DPI printing allows Indigo to print as fine as 0.423 point size text for security applications
7) color printing ensures the accuracy of color and perfect color matching vis-Ã -vis offset printing up till 97 %
8) The press is structurally based on Ryobi offset machine chassis which makes it very heavy and robust (no plastic part, only metal) work-horse
9) Widest variety of paper stock, like textured, metallic, non tear-able, transparency, etc. can be printed on Indigo
10) White Ink is new added advantage to create high quality Tags, Designed Photo Albums, Printing on Transparent material
so go ahead with Indigo and dont get confused by people with half information
Regardscanufinishit
Member
While the gentleman below loves the Indigo, which is a great press, you must decide what your applications are and know each machines capabilities.
The S2000 is OLD technology
The 5500 is a good unit and can print on multiple substrates but may require specially coated sapphire treated surfaces
The MGI Meteor DP60 claims to run "off the shelf" substrates reducing substrate cost.
Max size of Indigo 5500 is 13" x 19". The Meteor DP60 is 13" x 40" DP60 also has a envelope feeder
If you want a 5th or 6th color Indigo is your machine
As for the toner, and make no mistake, they are both toner, the Indigo has a very small micron toner size, 1 micron I believe, and so must be suspended in a mineral oil
The MGI Meteor DP60 uses a polymer based toner that is about 3 to 4 micron. Both give a natural "offset press" look. Both are good for use in photo books and the flesh tones look great on both.
The toner for the Meteor DP60 is far more scuff resistant then the toner that the Indigo uses.
Indigo Press seems more robust
MGI Meteor seems more flexible
Open architecture on MGI output allows an enduser to roll up a finishing device to the output conveyor Think UV coater, folder, tabber....
Gentlemen, interesting comments.. While Mr Jagga.neerjaj seems to sell Indigo, Canufinishit seems to be more neutral and realistic with his comments.
MGI is described as "multisubstrate" machine, and as far as I have seen/heard it seems to be very easy so switch from one material to another, ie. like 1 minute or less. How is this in Indigo, going from paper to plastic? What are the price levels of the equipment? Photo inks, are they good for something else, can you print plastics with those? Are there more different ink choices for Indigo, are they easy to change. What are the volume areas the machines are supposed to run.
MGI is described as "multisubstrate" machine, and as far as I have seen/heard it seems to be very easy so switch from one material to another, ie. like 1 minute or less. How is this in Indigo, going from paper to plastic? What are the price levels of the equipment? Photo inks, are they good for something else, can you print plastics with those? Are there more different ink choices for Indigo, are they easy to change. What are the volume areas the machines are supposed to run.
Schnitzel
Well-known member
"people with half information"... You seem to supply half information yourself. I'll comment on some of your statements. Not to argue pointlessly with a salesman, of course, but for the gentleman who opened this thread. For the record, I have been an Indigo press operator for 5 years:
1. False. There are other products which use a blanket cylinder, MGI being one of them if I recall correctly. Kodak's NexPress is another.
2. Indigo's pigments are not "offset pigments". They are still toners, and the paper does not absorb them. Instead, they are layered on the substrate, as in other digital presses. Indeed, the ink layer is much less thick than powder toner.
9. The Indigo still cannot print on uncoated paper without coating it first with Sapphire or Topaz, as canufinishit wrote, making this kind of paper expensive. The ink simply does not bond with the paper. Not much progress has been made with the Series III, despite whatever salesmen tell you (I know this personally from one of the Indigo engineers here). This is the bane of the Indigo, for almost 20 years now.
10. The white ink is not that good, to be honest. To get good opacity and complete coverage, you need to print at least two layers of it. This is required even in the Series III machines (7000, 6000 etc.).
1. False. There are other products which use a blanket cylinder, MGI being one of them if I recall correctly. Kodak's NexPress is another.
2. Indigo's pigments are not "offset pigments". They are still toners, and the paper does not absorb them. Instead, they are layered on the substrate, as in other digital presses. Indeed, the ink layer is much less thick than powder toner.
9. The Indigo still cannot print on uncoated paper without coating it first with Sapphire or Topaz, as canufinishit wrote, making this kind of paper expensive. The ink simply does not bond with the paper. Not much progress has been made with the Series III, despite whatever salesmen tell you (I know this personally from one of the Indigo engineers here). This is the bane of the Indigo, for almost 20 years now.
10. The white ink is not that good, to be honest. To get good opacity and complete coverage, you need to print at least two layers of it. This is required even in the Series III machines (7000, 6000 etc.).
Hi,
Some one was talking about the HALF INFORMATION, and ended up giving info only abt the Indigo and just forgot the MGI part.
Just to complete the info to help our friend make the right decission, I would like to put forward few points related to MGI DP 60 Pro.
Since I have been workin on MGI's machine and dont have much of experience on Indigo, I will only put the points forward related to MGI.
1. MGI has built DP 60 as roboust as it shoould be for Digital Prinitng. (It weighs almost 1000 Kgs)
2. Dp 60 works on toner based principle, which give image good density also it is scuff resistant.
3. Offers SPOT ON integrated with the RIP, which converts pantone to CMYK. It gives commercially acceptable results if not 100% accurate.
(I also wonder the market size for printing of pantone shades in short run digital printing, also need to consider the feasablity of using ink cartridges for each shade that needs to be reproduced)
4. can print both on paper and Plastics like PVC, PC, PET etc without any coating.
(also need to mention about its envelope printing capablity)
this is the best part, as you have the flexiblity of virtually printing any type of material with the change over time of 1 minute from one material to another.
5. It comes with a substrate proflie manager which really makes the process of substrate changing possible in 2-3 clicks.without any hardware alteration.
6. it has a very good feature of offset feeder,
where you can pile upto 1000 sheets of 350 gsm of 13" X 40".
7. The imaging is done by LASER and not by LED, so dots reproduced are sharp and crisp.
Also offers 2400 dpi res, which is one of the highest available in market.
8. Since you can print on so many substrates, lot of avenues along with commercial printing like PVC CARD manufacturing, PC printing, sticker printing etc gets open which is a good margin business then just paper printing.
9. talking abt commercial aspect you have the flexiblity of PAYING AS YOU USE (a la carte system) rather then paying a flat click charge. this reduces your consumale bill by a good percentage.
10. since you can print on both PAPER and PLASTICS in DP 60 you dont need to buy TWO machines which Indigo proposes.
s2000 for PLASTICS and 5000 series for PAPER
That means you get virually 2 machines in a price which is actually less than an INDIGO.
I think this is what I can say about MGI dp 60, rest its up to you to decide.
feel free to contact me if you still need any further info.
best of luck for your adventure,
Regards,
Umesh
Some one was talking about the HALF INFORMATION, and ended up giving info only abt the Indigo and just forgot the MGI part.
Just to complete the info to help our friend make the right decission, I would like to put forward few points related to MGI DP 60 Pro.
Since I have been workin on MGI's machine and dont have much of experience on Indigo, I will only put the points forward related to MGI.
1. MGI has built DP 60 as roboust as it shoould be for Digital Prinitng. (It weighs almost 1000 Kgs)
2. Dp 60 works on toner based principle, which give image good density also it is scuff resistant.
3. Offers SPOT ON integrated with the RIP, which converts pantone to CMYK. It gives commercially acceptable results if not 100% accurate.
(I also wonder the market size for printing of pantone shades in short run digital printing, also need to consider the feasablity of using ink cartridges for each shade that needs to be reproduced)
4. can print both on paper and Plastics like PVC, PC, PET etc without any coating.
(also need to mention about its envelope printing capablity)
this is the best part, as you have the flexiblity of virtually printing any type of material with the change over time of 1 minute from one material to another.
5. It comes with a substrate proflie manager which really makes the process of substrate changing possible in 2-3 clicks.without any hardware alteration.
6. it has a very good feature of offset feeder,
where you can pile upto 1000 sheets of 350 gsm of 13" X 40".
7. The imaging is done by LASER and not by LED, so dots reproduced are sharp and crisp.
Also offers 2400 dpi res, which is one of the highest available in market.
8. Since you can print on so many substrates, lot of avenues along with commercial printing like PVC CARD manufacturing, PC printing, sticker printing etc gets open which is a good margin business then just paper printing.
9. talking abt commercial aspect you have the flexiblity of PAYING AS YOU USE (a la carte system) rather then paying a flat click charge. this reduces your consumale bill by a good percentage.
10. since you can print on both PAPER and PLASTICS in DP 60 you dont need to buy TWO machines which Indigo proposes.
s2000 for PLASTICS and 5000 series for PAPER
That means you get virually 2 machines in a price which is actually less than an INDIGO.
I think this is what I can say about MGI dp 60, rest its up to you to decide.
feel free to contact me if you still need any further info.
best of luck for your adventure,
Regards,
Umesh
andreisarbu
Well-known member
In this thread I see many people that have great knowledge about MGI and I would be happy to have some more details about that machine:
- DP60 Pro is a reengineered Konika Minolta 6501 engine? I've seen that statement on the forum but nobody confirmed it. Also the specs for DP60 (not PRO) are the same with 6501.
- which is the resolution of the engine? It is 2400x2400 dpi? Everywere the resolution is specified as 2400/200lpi which means that it can be 2400x800 for example.
Thanks.
Andrei
- DP60 Pro is a reengineered Konika Minolta 6501 engine? I've seen that statement on the forum but nobody confirmed it. Also the specs for DP60 (not PRO) are the same with 6501.
- which is the resolution of the engine? It is 2400x2400 dpi? Everywere the resolution is specified as 2400/200lpi which means that it can be 2400x800 for example.
Thanks.
Andrei
ontargetpublishing
Member
DP60 vs HP Indigo
DP60 vs HP Indigo
Forum members,
Not to change the subject, however, I'm looking for unbiased feedback (Kodak, HP or MGI sales people or representatives of these companies need not reply) from actual users to confirm if they know whether or not the MGI DP60 has any banding issues when printing large areas of solid color on paper substrates. So far to date I've found no better press to handle this issue (banding) than the HP Indigo's, including comparing Kodak's NexPress in side to side comparisons.
Any relevant information, feedback or experiences with this concern would be appreciated.
Regards,
OTP
DP60 vs HP Indigo
Forum members,
Not to change the subject, however, I'm looking for unbiased feedback (Kodak, HP or MGI sales people or representatives of these companies need not reply) from actual users to confirm if they know whether or not the MGI DP60 has any banding issues when printing large areas of solid color on paper substrates. So far to date I've found no better press to handle this issue (banding) than the HP Indigo's, including comparing Kodak's NexPress in side to side comparisons.
Any relevant information, feedback or experiences with this concern would be appreciated.
Regards,
OTP
Cory Smith
Well-known member
OTP, you should probably create a new thread with your question instead of hijacking this one.
ontargetpublishing
Member
DP60 vs HP Indigo
DP60 vs HP Indigo
Didn't mean to step on toes, I just signed onto this forum as a new user and was not finding where to create a new thread which I was trying to confirm prior to your note. I sent an inquiry to PP, waiting on a response and happy to step out of your thread.
OTP
DP60 vs HP Indigo
Didn't mean to step on toes, I just signed onto this forum as a new user and was not finding where to create a new thread which I was trying to confirm prior to your note. I sent an inquiry to PP, waiting on a response and happy to step out of your thread.
OTP
Cory Smith
Well-known member
No problem at all..you will probably just get more/accurate responses in a new thread.
Firstly, I am a big Indigo fan, having worked with a 5500 for several years (from a prepress and management perspective, not as a 'hands on' operator). Based on my experience I will add the following comments.
3) Offers a complete range of pantones for spot color printing, which is not available in any other digital machine
Agree, but don't overlook: the changeover time from one pantone/special/varnish to another (and then back again!); the limited shelf life of pantones; minimum order quanities -unless you have a big corporate client regularly placing orders with their corporate colour there is little scope for profitably printing with spot colours - these issues have put us off ordering anything other than the violet, orange or digi-matte.
7) color printing ensures the accuracy of color and perfect color matching vis-Ã -vis offset printing up till 97 %.
IN theory yes, in practice our experience is that unless the machine is operating in an absolutely perfectly controlled environment vis-a-vis temperature & humidity, colour consistency is nowhere near as good as 97% claimed - its still as good or better than its competitors but don't be fooled by the promises in all the sales/marketing literature.
8) The press is structurally based on Ryobi offset machine chassis which makes it very heavy and robust (no plastic part, only metal) work-horse.
Although it may be based on Ryobi chassis, the device is very maintenance heavy requiring significant daily & weekly maintenance - far more than a true 'workhorse' offset press would require, especially if maintenance was based/compared on impressions and not time! and whilst the chassis may be all metal not all the working parts are! take a look at the guts of the machine.
9) Widest variety of paper stock, like textured, metallic, non tear-able, transparency, etc. can be printed on Indigo.
Yes it does print on a wide variety of stock, but maybe nowhere near as flexibly as HP sales material may claim and set up times to print on some of the more exotic stocks can be quite high.
In my opinion, the image quality off the indigo is far superior to any other digital device, but in certain circumstances it is nowhere near litho quality, especially when comparing flat tints or solid areas with similar products printed on a litho press.
Finally, to get the best out of the press, there is no substitute for a good operator. In my experience the performance of the press is direclty related to the quality and experience of the operator than anything else - it takes a special operator to get the absolute best out of it - and they are as difficult to get hold of as rocking horse poo!!!
3) Offers a complete range of pantones for spot color printing, which is not available in any other digital machine
Agree, but don't overlook: the changeover time from one pantone/special/varnish to another (and then back again!); the limited shelf life of pantones; minimum order quanities -unless you have a big corporate client regularly placing orders with their corporate colour there is little scope for profitably printing with spot colours - these issues have put us off ordering anything other than the violet, orange or digi-matte.
7) color printing ensures the accuracy of color and perfect color matching vis-Ã -vis offset printing up till 97 %.
IN theory yes, in practice our experience is that unless the machine is operating in an absolutely perfectly controlled environment vis-a-vis temperature & humidity, colour consistency is nowhere near as good as 97% claimed - its still as good or better than its competitors but don't be fooled by the promises in all the sales/marketing literature.
8) The press is structurally based on Ryobi offset machine chassis which makes it very heavy and robust (no plastic part, only metal) work-horse.
Although it may be based on Ryobi chassis, the device is very maintenance heavy requiring significant daily & weekly maintenance - far more than a true 'workhorse' offset press would require, especially if maintenance was based/compared on impressions and not time! and whilst the chassis may be all metal not all the working parts are! take a look at the guts of the machine.
9) Widest variety of paper stock, like textured, metallic, non tear-able, transparency, etc. can be printed on Indigo.
Yes it does print on a wide variety of stock, but maybe nowhere near as flexibly as HP sales material may claim and set up times to print on some of the more exotic stocks can be quite high.
In my opinion, the image quality off the indigo is far superior to any other digital device, but in certain circumstances it is nowhere near litho quality, especially when comparing flat tints or solid areas with similar products printed on a litho press.
Finally, to get the best out of the press, there is no substitute for a good operator. In my experience the performance of the press is direclty related to the quality and experience of the operator than anything else - it takes a special operator to get the absolute best out of it - and they are as difficult to get hold of as rocking horse poo!!!
canufinishit
Member
I was at the On Demand Show in PA and asked the operator to run just straight solids of each CMYK. The colors were vibrant with little or no noticable banding. I than asked the operator to run CMYK in a 25% screen. There was little or no banding in the Cyan, Yellow or Magenta. There was some very slight banding on the black. They ran one after another, 10pt Kromekote, 10pt Polycarbonate, 6pt Teslin, 12pt PVC and than a guy from Yupo came over with some stock and they ran it immediately and it did not scratch off which is what I have personally seen with Indigo.
They also ran some RGBs profile photos and a 13" x 40" poster!
I have to say it is a very impressive demo.
Hello,
Does anybody have Used DP60Pro for sales? pls sent me information to my email: [email protected]
Does anybody have Used DP60Pro for sales? pls sent me information to my email: [email protected]
Doesnt the DP60 use the consumable model? (no flat click charge) - in which case how can you ever accuratley price anything? Also from the samples i have seen - it produces a very Matt finish and cant physically produce a "gloss" effect unless of course you use a UV coater which adds additional cost. Image quailty is veru good and great substrate flexibility though...
canufinishit
Member
Good question! you probably can but it would be time consuming in the long run. I think you could take your jobs and find out what the average coverage is and price from there or use the PIA standards, I believe it's 34% for USA more if you are a photo printer.
Who wants gloss!!?! Many people want something that resembles offset. Coming from the offset world, the work coming off both the DP60 and the HP Indigo looks more like offset than anything coming off of a silcon toner based machine, not that it doesn't look good, just not like offset. Also the toners are supposed to be "laser safe". Not sure what that means exactly but they say you can print on envelopes and letterheads and run through a laser printer and the image will not smear due to laser printer heat. That's quite a trick if true.
I agree - the Xerox "oil slick / gloss" effect on some of their older machines isnt pleasing to the eye at all but its nice to be able to produce a satin or silk effect especially on photo work (not everything has to be matt) and when I saw the DP60 samples it was realy flat/matt and at that time they couldnt produce a silk/gloss effect at all (it was a year ago). The indgo does replicate the effect of the paper youre printing on - silk, gloss etc...so great for enhancing photo work..
If the information I've been given is correct the MGI machine uses the Konica Minolta print engine off of the older generation 6500, so it's not surprising that the image area is more matt than, for example, an older generation Xerox.
BTW, I'm not really getting this argument that litho is more matt? As well as 6501's and a Xerox B&W we have a 4-colour B3 and a 5 colour B2. On uncoated paper, yes, the image area is matt. On gloss and silk we have a pleasing level of "shine" on image areas (which is just what you are aiming for). Not a high gloss, but if you open up a "coffee table" type book you'll see what I mean. The 6501 engine CAN get close to this, but you need to know what you are doing as it can drift off to a much more matt appearance.
BTW, I'm not really getting this argument that litho is more matt? As well as 6501's and a Xerox B&W we have a 4-colour B3 and a 5 colour B2. On uncoated paper, yes, the image area is matt. On gloss and silk we have a pleasing level of "shine" on image areas (which is just what you are aiming for). Not a high gloss, but if you open up a "coffee table" type book you'll see what I mean. The 6501 engine CAN get close to this, but you need to know what you are doing as it can drift off to a much more matt appearance.
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