need advice for purchase inkjet press machine

[slimbh]

Hi,
We have installed four laser printing press and we are looking to invest in an entry level inkjet printing machine. can you recommend us a model knowing that the budget is limited.
Thansk,

 

[Ynot_UK]

@slimbh you need to quantify a few things here. “Limited budget” will mean different things to different people. What width do you want to go up to and on what substrates? What quantities do you envisage printing? How much space have you got? What about finishing? Etc...

 

[slimbh]

@slimbh you need to quantify a few things here. “Limited budget” will mean different things to different people. What width do you want to go up to and on what substrates? What quantities do you envisage printing? How much space have you got? What about finishing? Etc...

Hi Ynot_UK,
By limited budget i mean that we looking for something near ricoh 9200 or little more expansive but inkjet no laser based machine.

Actually we print on for digital toner based press width 330mm, we have 2 konica c1085, one ricoh 7200 and one ricoh 8310. So we plan to remplace the old two konica by inkjet press.Ricoh 720 will remain as backup machine.

We print on very different substrate as coated paper, uncoated, textured heavy weight or not. Please note that no pretreatment paper is available here.

We print about 25000 SRA3 sheet a day and have space for another machine in our warehouse.

thanks,

 

[Ynot_UK]

Buying a wide format inkjet needs a bit more forethought than buying a digital press, as the technology and capability of the latter all do more or less the same thing and have similar options in terms of finishing. The decision is 9/10 times down to existing dealer relationships, support in your area, click charges, etc.

Start with print width, throughput and substrate capabilities. Then understand the pros and cons of latex vs. eco-solvent inks. Then look at finishing - for even the simplest jobs you'll need to be able to laminate and cut to the width of the substrate.

 

[pippip]

I think the op is looking for an inkjet production press, not wide format.

 

[Ynot_UK]

I think the op is looking for an inkjet production press, not wide format.

You may be right. I did wonder that myself when first reading the OP, however asking for "entry level" perhaps hinted otherwise.

we are looking to invest in an entry level inkjet printing machine.

 

[Shawnd]

Are you talking about something like the MCS Merlin K146c?

Merlin K146c - MCS Pro

Low capital cost No clicks Industry leading shared maintenance Ease of use

mcspro.com

or more like the Riso T2

Riso | RISO T2

us.riso.com

 

[slimbh]

I think the op is looking for an inkjet production press, not wide format.

Right pippip,
I'm looking for inkjet production press like konica KM1 but if smaller size if available.
Riso had not high quality printing so isn't option for us.

So my question is for inkjet production press, which can we choose for entry level not too expensive and not too big?
Thanks

 

[Shawnd]

You mention 9200, that is a roughly a $100k printer, but yet you say not too expensive? Are you sure you know what you are looking for?

 

[slimbh]

You mention 9200, that is a roughly a $100k printer, but yet you say not too expensive? Are you sure you know what you are looking for?

i know that inkjet press is more expensive than ricoh 9200, for exemple konica KM1 is about 1mi$ i think which is over our financial capacity. So i ask if there is other brand that had inkjet press less expensive i think about 150-200K$ ?

 

[Shawnd]

Did you look at the MCS link I provided? Under $200k.

 

[Ynot_UK]

What do you want from a small inkjet press that your existing fleet of dry toner machines don’t offer? I could understand why you may want a KM1e or similar, as it is a B2+ press. However the MCS machine won’t print larger sheets than your C1085 presses. With your current volumes and inventory, you still have reasonable unused capacity, and redundancy which is good. If it’s time to replace old kit and I was in your position, I’d choose a pair of C6085 or C6100 presses over a single one of those MCS inkjets without hesitation.

 

[slimbh]

What do you want from a small inkjet press that your existing fleet of dry toner machines don’t offer? I could understand why you may want a KM1e or similar, as it is a B2+ press. However the MCS machine won’t print larger sheets than your C1085 presses. With your current volumes and inventory, you still have reasonable unused capacity, and redundancy which is good. If it’s time to replace old kit and I was in your position, I’d choose a pair of C6085 or C6100 presses over a single one of those MCS inkjets without hesitation

Ynot_uk you are probably right, our actual toner based press is suffisent for a time (specially with order down due to COVID-19). But as i read everywhere, inkjet is the future for digital print with less downtime and less cost par page. So we think to test inkjet technology before buy expensive one.

 

[Ynot_UK]

But as i read everywhere, inkjet is the future for digital print with less downtime and less cost par page. So we think to test inkjet technology before buy expensive one.

There's a few problems with looking at it like that:

• Scalability - it may be possible to achieve less cost per page but only with something high end. As an analogy, compare the price of clicks on your C1085 presses versus the price of clicks on the office colour photocopier. Being simplistic, both devices produce the same size sheets, printed in colour.
• The learning curve with any industrial inkjet will be huge compared to upgrading one digital press for another. Replacing your two main workhorses with an untried unknown seems to represent a huge risk, which could significantly impact your ability to produce 25k SRA3 sheets/day.
• Dipping your toe and testing industrial inkjet technology with a sub $200k machine is unlikely to prove the technology, in fact it may skew your view forever. It would be like testing dry toner technology with the office copier I mentioned earlier. Your conclusions won't be meaningful.

If you're serious about this, invite KM, HP and Xerox to win you over. They will each keenly court you and take you to see their installations in action, where you can talk shop with the owners & operators. Most importantly, you can look at similarities between your business and theirs, before running the numbers to see if your idea has legs commercially. But you are going to need deep pockets.

 

[slimbh]

There's a few problems with looking at it like that:

• Scalability - it may be possible to achieve less cost per page but only with something high end. As an analogy, compare the price of clicks on your C1085 presses versus the price of clicks on the office colour photocopier. Being simplistic, both devices produce the same size sheets, printed in colour.
• The learning curve with any industrial inkjet will be huge compared to upgrading one digital press for another. Replacing your two main workhorses with an untried unknown seems to represent a huge risk, which could significantly impact your ability to produce 25k SRA3 sheets/day.
• Dipping your toe and testing industrial inkjet technology with a sub $200k machine is unlikely to prove the technology, in fact it may skew your view forever. It would be like testing dry toner technology with the office copier I mentioned earlier. Your conclusions won't be meaningful.

If you're serious about this, invite KM, HP and Xerox to win you over. They will each keenly court you and take you to see their installations in action, where you can talk shop with the owners & operators. Most importantly, you can look at similarities between your business and theirs, before running the numbers to see if your idea has legs commercially. But you are going to need deep pockets.

Thank you for advice, your opinion make sense. i will wait until the next DRUPA so i can compare technology. Also will ask KM and Ricoh to to visit some of there installed machine on production to can talk with owner and have idea.

 

[Ynot_UK]

Thank you for advice, your opinion make sense. i will wait until the next DRUPA so i can compare technology. Also will ask KM and Ricoh to to visit some of there installed machine on production to can talk with owner and have idea.

KM, Ricoh and HP have all announced they won't be there...

 

[Shawnd]

Production Inkjet Printing - Archive

www.piworld.com

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Wide Format and Inkjet Discussion

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printplanet.com

And

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[Stickman42]

i know that inkjet press is more expensive than ricoh 9200, for exemple konica KM1 is about 1mi$ i think which is over our financial capacity. So i ask if there is other brand that had inkjet press less expensive i think about 150-200K$ ?

Canon (USA) supposedly has some original i300's coming available as used. This is a cut sheet machine. Maybe look them up?