Onyx

[digitalatsigonedotcom]

Anyone using Onyx?

I saw the interface for the first time yesterday. It looks a lot like EFI.

How accurate is color? I need Onyx to handle the large RIP files for our new S70670, but should I consider moving the 7880 from EFI to Onyx?

Has anyone had experience running EFI and Onyx on the same print server?

 

[kewlbigdan]

We are using both Efi and Onyx, but on separate printers. we are about to test the Oyx Thrive system as a central server for all our printers (replacing the EFI) so will let you know. From what I have seen so far in our tests, the Onyx has more bells and whistles and we can do alot more color management precision to our Oce flatbed printer.

 

[rich apollo]

I think you'll get more accurate color and speedier throughput with EFI. You tend to see Onyx in sign shops, and such, because of the number of devices it will drive. EFI is making a focused effort to drive more devices, now.

Why do you say you need Onyx to drive the SureColor? EFI drives that machine, as of version 4.5.8.

I think it would be a bad idea to try to run both on the same machine, but I don't know anyone who's tried.

 

[digitalatsigonedotcom]

We are only on EFI 3.1, and while we have the XXL license, Onyx shipped with the SureColor so why pay for something when it's already free? It's unlikely, or rare, that both EFI and Onyx would be processing files simultaneously, although it could happen. Still, it's running 64-bit and with 12GB RAM I don't think it will be a huge dip in processing power. We are going to look into switching from EFI to Onyx, though, to alleviate the possibility of issue. Why have an extra print server/workstation and 2 sets of software to maintain if it's truly unnecessary? Especially if Onyx will drive both and maintain press color accuracy.

 

[digitalatsigonedotcom]

I should also mention that I had (previous to this post) contacted Epson, EFI and Onyx and none of them have any issue with being installed on the same machine, and none of them (that they will admit to anyway) confirm any kind of software or processing conflict.

 

[Correct Color]

From what I have seen so far in our tests, the Onyx has more bells and whistles and we can do alot more color management precision to our Oce flatbed printer.

Basically, that's correct.

What a lot of people have a little trouble grasping is that in large-format inkjet printing, it is all about profiles.

And by "profiles" I mean media profiles, not just ICC profiles.

The basic function of a RIP is simply to turn pixel information into dot information. And it does that using the information provided it in whatever profile it's using as a description of a printer when it makes its calculations.

And because of that -- with all else being equal -- the RIP only matters to the extent that it gives you control of the printer to get the most out of its capabilities.

And if you know how to use it, that RIP is still Onyx.

The word of caution here, however, is that you have to know how to use it, and Onyx doesn't actually tell you. The "Print. Read. Next." process that they peddle won't get you there, and their internal profile-making engine is -- to be charitable -- mediocre.

Because of that, lots of stock profiles that come with Onyx are pretty inferior. And they've even given Onyx something of a reputation as in inferior RIP.

However, the tools are there, if you know where to look. And profiled correctly, when it comes to color, Onyx can still not be beat.


Mike Adams

 

[digitalatsigonedotcom]

The Epson S70670 is very intimidating, especially when it comes to paper profiling. There are multiple versions of Onyx; ours shipped with the bare bones There are two versions higher, which might be better; we're looking into the upgrade. The version of Onyx we have now is very limiting. I wanted to use our .icc profile, but when doing so, because it hasn't been properly fingerprinted, it's useless on its own (the .icc). The paper profile that came with Onyx actually comes close to matching the .epl on our Epson 7880 through EFI, so as long as it stays in that range and doesn't stray (the Agfa rep said I did not need to relinearize the S70670 like I do the 7880) we'll be fine.

 

[Correct Color]

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, that means you've got RIP Center, which basically comes with one printer license, and without Media Manager. And what that means is that you can't build profiles with it at all. You can't even install OML (Onyx Media Library) Files. Pretty much, you just have to download media with the Onyx media download client and let it do the media installs.

The only problem with that, of course, is that you're limited to using Onyx stock profiles.

And as I mentioned, typically Onyx stock profiles have some issues. In fact, while I'd assume -- since they're working with Epson now -- that they've gotten better with the Sure Color, the stock Onyx profiles were so abysmal for the GS6000 that a huge bunch of users of that machine were convinced that Onyx was a terrible RIP, just because they were so bad. They were convinced the stripped-down Colorburst that shipped with the GS was much superior to Onyx.

It wasn't. It was actually severely limited in what it could do. And profiled correctly, Onyx could make a GS run rings around it.

The problem comes in in profiling Onyx correctly. They're married to their silly Print!ReadNext! profiling method, and their mediocre ICC engine.

The Onyx upgrades you're speaking of are probably to PosterShop, and then to ProductionHouse. PosterShop gets you Media Manager, so you get the ability to make media profiles, plus one more printer license. Production House gets you two more printer licenses, plus Media Manger, their ICC profile-making engine and another bell or whistle or so.

I'll point out that I do have many clients with RIP-Center. What I do is profile their machines with my copy of Onyx, then import the profiles in. Or, I can put you together an upgrade and profiling-teaching package.

Mike Adams

 

[OnyxLab]

All,

For clarification.
Epson USA contracted a color consultant to provide all of the profiles, for all of the SureColor models in the US market.

Further, let's be clear. There is vast difference in "Profiled Correctly" (e.g. a focused effort, in a specific environment, with specific printers, on specific substrates with known expectations by an individual who's sole objective is to do just that)

AND

Releasing a print driver on-time with the release of a new device(typically prior to being announced), using a prototype device and ink, while providing out of box print capability over a wide range of substrates, in largely unknown environments, with unknown requirements, and expectations.

Trust me, I'm familiar with both paths and each has little to do with the other. This is precisely why ONYX has, in recent years reduced the number of profiles we provide. Most profiles are either provided by the printer manufacturer, or a consultant that they have hired. Those few profiles ONYX provides are at the request of, and approved by the printer manufacturer's. Not to mention our profiling tools are greatly improved and improving since X10.

As far as Print, Read, Next...

That comment is the marketing phrase that was introduced with the revamped Media Manager in version X10.
The purpose of the statement was to convey to the majority of users that several of the more challenging and/or inefficient steps had been simplified in X10 Media Manager.
These changes, in large part made it possible for the average shop employee to get reasonable output with little fuss, or color science knowledge.
That said, there are plenty of ways the average user can take the quality of their profiles to another level while also improving their skills.
So please, don't let anyone fool you into thinking you can't maximize your print characterizations on your own.

Let's consider Ink Restrictions. Being that Ink Restrictions are the foundation of a print characterization (Media Profile) you can learn a lot about your Ink + Media's potential gamut simply by viewing the measurements. In fact, you can view this data in multiple ways. For example, you can plot each channels maximum Chroma(Color) and determine the Ink Volume at which that color stops increasing. Thus making 'informed' decisions that will affect final gamut.

Remember, presets are there to make it easy, not best. There simply isn't any realistic way to make presets that represent the literally thousands of ink/substrate/hardware combinations. Implied or not, that is not the intention of the presets and I'd guess most reasonable people acknowledge this.

If you need to know how to access the advanced functions, such as plotting the Chroma, please contact our support team @1.800.828.0723. Each of our reps has had training on advanced topics. And in the event they are stumped by your inquiries they have numerous resources that can assist them in assisting you. Myself included.

Best Regards,
Doug Mackay
ONYX Graphics, Inc.