Opening a PDF with Illustrator - Epic Fail

[Tim-Ellis]

Hello Folks,

I am hosting an internal training session next week

One aim is to get the team to stop using Illustrator to check or correct PDF files created by non-Illustrator apps and I am looking for any PDF file that when opened in Illustrator causes obvious (or hard to discover) errors.

I have one or two but I'm looking for some variety.

Please - any files you have can be emailed to [email protected]

In return I give you an Illustrator EPS file that displays either ABC or CBA depending on what app you use to open or preview it. The spot colours move around a bit too but that's less impressive.

Thanks for reading and have a good weekend.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Tim-Ellis]

Hello Folks,

One aim is to get the team to stop using Illustrator to check or correct PDF files created by non-Illustrator apps ..

Of course, Plan B is to stop paying the subscription

 

[abc]

Hi Tim
I would love to be a fly-on-the wall for that session. You should record it or sell tickets!
Will see what I can dig out that I am able to share.

 

[Dov Isaacs]

Almost any PDF file originating in Microsoft Office, especially if it uses artificial embolding (i.e., one presses the bold button but there is no bold face for the font family) will be problematic in Illustrator or if it is from Excel!

And of course, opening a PDF file in Illustrator if the PDF file's fonts are not locally installed on your system will also mess up (the embedded fonts are not used by Illustrator).

PDF files from InDesign with multiple color spaces will be corrupted in Illustrator since Illustrator cannot deal with multiple color spaces except for placed content via links.

Why don't you just tell these folks that officially, Adobe warns most strongly against attempts to edit any arbitrary PDF in Illustrator unless that PDF file was created in that or an earlier version of Illustrator using the editability option (which, by the way is not available when saving PDF as PDF/X)! And you can use my name as the reference on that.

- Dov

 

[Tim-Ellis]

Hi Tim
I would love to be a fly-on-the wall for that session. You should record it or sell tickets!
Will see what I can dig out that I am able to share.

lol ... should be good fun

Thank you - I appreciate that.

 

[Tim-Ellis]

Why don't you just tell these folks that officially, Adobe warns most strongly against attempts to edit any arbitrary PDF in Illustrator unless that PDF file was created in that or an earlier version of Illustrator using the editability option (which, by the way is not available when saving PDF as PDF/X)! And you can use my name as the reference on that.

- Dov

Thank you Dov - I have just copied and pasted the above into my powerpoint.

Good tip on Word - I had not thought of that.

For the record, these folks work in our IT department and they are like a toddler with a yoghurt and a spoon who think they can do this all by themselves.

 

[Dov Isaacs]

Thank you Dov - I have just copied and pasted the above into my powerpoint.

Good tip on Word - I had not thought of that.

For the record, these folks work in our IT department and they are like a toddler with a yoghurt and a spoon who think they can do this all by themselves.

I'd love to see a copy of that presentation when completed. Or if you would like me to review it before presenting, give a holler at <[email protected]>.

- Dov

 

[Glenn McDowall]

Hey Tim, if you combine all your problem pdfs into one, you can now open them in Illustrator all at once, its a headline feature upgrade for CC March2018. So hopefully the IT sorts won't get too bored.

From Adobe's website; Illy's latest star features
"Import multiple page PDFs
Save time when you import all the pages of a PDF all at once. You can choose a page range or select individual pages."

 

[Dov Isaacs]

Hey Tim, if you combine all your problem pdfs into one, you can now open them in Illustrator all at once, its a headline feature upgrade for CC March2018. So hopefully the IT sorts won't get too bored.

From Adobe's website; Illy's latest star features
"Import multiple page PDFs
Save time when you import all the pages of a PDF all at once. You can choose a page range or select individual pages."

Please note that importing PDF is very different than opening PDF files. Importing is “placing” PDF content which is static. Opening is trying to treat the PDF file as a .AI file.

- Dov

 

[dabob]

Just a random thought here, I have been following (not using) the threads on the newer versions of Quark and from what I have read you can place a pdf into Quark and it turns into native objects that are editable . . . like I said just a random thought . . . .

 

[Tim-Ellis]

Just a random thought here, I have been following (not using) the threads on the newer versions of Quark and from what I have read you can place a pdf into Quark and it turns into native objects that are editable . . . like I said just a random thought . . . .

Haha . Me too

My guess is that it must be similar to MarkzWears PDF2ID. You might get a mixture of objects. Centralised text becomes left aligned but with ragged edges to make it look centralised.

I have a copy of Quark 2017 at the office. I might install it and have a look.

That said we work in Packaging so Quark .and ID are not always approprate.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Place a spot colour multi channel Photoshp file (or EPS-DCS) into InDesign, such as swapping out the magenta/yellow plates for a spot red and cyan/yellow plates for a spot green etc (presuming that an image is mostly made of red or green content). Then export out a PDF and open it into Illustrator and demonstrate what happens when the now DeviceN image opens into Illustrator, or even back into Photoshop.

http://prepression.blogspot.com.au/2...ts-of-pdf.html

https://printplanet.com/forum/prepr...72362-packzview-free-pdf-quality-control-tool


Stephen Marsh

 

[Glenn McDowall]

Please note that importing PDF is very different than opening PDF files. Importing is “placing” PDF content which is static. Opening is trying to treat the PDF file as a .AI file.

- Dov

sorry Dov I'm easily confused
but I don't think I'll be the only one
https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/illustrator/using/importing-pdf-files.html

• Starting from the March 2018 release of Illustrator CC (version 22.1), use the Open command to import a PDF file into Illustrator. Use the PDF Import Options dialog box to specify if you want to open a single page, a range of pages, or all pages of the PDF file as linked or embedded pages in the Illustrator document

the same web-page then then states you can edit the individual elements of an placed pdf page (not linked)

• Use the Place command with the Link option deselected to edit the contents of a PDF file. Illustrator recognizes the individual components in the PDF artwork and lets you edit each component as a discrete object.

Whilst I appreciate that your statements are correct and that editing pdfs in Illustrator is a bad idea, I'm not sure that everyone at Adobe is singing from the same hymn sheet.

 

[dabob]

sorry Dov I'm easily confused
but I don't think I'll be the only one
https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/illustrator/using/importing-pdf-files.html

• Starting from the March 2018 release of Illustrator CC (version 22.1), use the Open command to import a PDF file into Illustrator. Use the PDF Import Options dialog box to specify if you want to open a single page, a range of pages, or all pages of the PDF file as linked or embedded pages in the Illustrator document

the same web-page then then states you can edit the individual elements of an placed pdf page (not linked)

• Use the Place command with the Link option deselected to edit the contents of a PDF file. Illustrator recognizes the individual components in the PDF artwork and lets you edit each component as a discrete object.

Whilst I appreciate that your statements are correct and that editing pdfs in Illustrator is a bad idea, I'm not sure that everyone at Adobe is singing from the same hymn sheet.

Glenn, if you read a little farther down the text you will find the following,

"When you open an Adobe PDF file in Illustrator using the File > Open command"

So while you are 1/2 right it does specify an Adobe PDF so it would appear that word (as dov pointed out) and also other pdf creators would be left out . . . it would be interesting to see what Steven's Device N problem would be handled . . .

My biggest experience is having to fix labels that "artist" create in illy so I have not personally experienced any issues other than un-linked placed files when I do that . .. .

 

[mguenther]

My guess is that it must be similar to MarkzWears PDF2ID. You might get a mixture of objects. Centralised text becomes left aligned but with ragged edges to make it look centralised.

I have a copy of Quark 2017 at the office. I might install it and have a look.

Actually QuarkXPress tries to keep the look of the layout inside PDF as much as possible. Of course within limits, e.g justified text in the PDF – and PDF not having a justification attribute – will "appear" justified though left-aligned (by using tracked spaces).

Bezier curves typically translate well, also 2d pie charts from Excel or graphics from Illustrator. Of course style sheet names e.g. from ID will be lost, as they are not written into the PDF.

However, and to state the obvious, QuarkXPress is NOT a PDF editor. The feature is meant (and used) to quick start a new design or publication based on a PDF. Or to properly output Office elements that have "dirty" blacks or other interesting constructs.

Short video about it: https://youtu.be/ihJ-tNg-9lI?t=68

You can try that with the trial version of QuarkXPress too.

 

[prepressdork]

While I absolutely agree that editing a PDF in Illustrator is a bad idea and I will resist doing so as much as possible in favor of a better file, sometimes those of us fighting in the trenches....simply have no choice.

pd

 

[pushpixels]

While I absolutely agree that editing a PDF in Illustrator is a bad idea and I will resist doing so as much as possible in favor of a better file, sometimes those of us fighting in the trenches....simply have no choice.

pd

I will always request a native file but I agree, sometimes you have no choice. Using flattener preview can make some files usable, even though they will require cleaning up. If I work off an .ai file or have to recreate from physical samples and text files I always try to have a reference file to compare vs to make sure nothing is out of wack.

 

[prepmaster]

Try outputting a PDF from corel draw with marks and bleeds.... Sometimes the image is not centered when opened in illustrator

 

[Glenn McDowall]

Glenn, if you read a little farther down the text you will find the following,

"When you open an Adobe PDF file in Illustrator using the File > Open command"

So while you are 1/2 right it does specify an Adobe PDF so it would appear that word (as dov pointed out) and also other pdf creators would be left out . . . it would be interesting to see what Steven's Device N problem would be handled . . .

My biggest experience is having to fix labels that "artist" create in illy so I have not personally experienced any issues other than un-linked placed files when I do that . .. .

Actually I don't think I'm half right, I'm completely wrong, I have mis-read or mis interpreted the meaning of the words, though I think that the words could be clearer, I shouldn't have used my poor attempt at humour in my post, I'd just like to apologise to Dov, and anyone on the forum if I gave the impression that Illustrator should be used as a general means to edit pdfs because I know that it should not.