Overprinting Issues - Who's fault? Any good way to prevent?

[robert]

So I've run into an issue with a client who supplied a file with mixed cmyk/pantone, and one of the pantone colors used is set to overprint on one line of text only. Unfortunately, this was not caught by visual checks, and I am unaware of an easy way to find this prior to ripping a proof. I have checks currently in my preflighting profiles to check for overprint white, but the issue has occurred in this case on a pantone yellow color.

I know how to fix this once I know the problem exists, and the majority of overprinting issues are caught before we ever get to press, but the question I have is who would ultimately be responsible for the reprint of the job? Would the client pay for this in a typical situation because it is their supplied PDF file, or would the print shop take responsibility? If the latter is true, I would assume there has to be a good way of finding this error for any color other than white, but I currently don't know of a method for this. Any input on this topic and/or ways to find the issue more easily would be much appreciated!

 

[akalaray]

What visual checks are you talking about? Was the client asked to approve the visual check. What kind of file did the client supply? I expect the answer will be PDF supplied file and PDF proof. If it was PDF, then how did they view it? Overprint on?

 

[robert]

The customer viewed their PDF without overprint, the default in reader. The supplied file was a PDF. The job went to press without customer approval, as the vast majority of our jobs do.

The visual checks I was speaking of were my own that I do when I receive the file. Mostly we rip a PDF proof to check for any anomalies caused by the rip, and check the overprinting on the job. In most cases I catch an error such as this before it ever makes it to press, but being that it's purely by sight it rarely does get missed.

 

[Greg_Firestone]

Hi Robert,

If you generate a PDF/X-1a proof for the client, Acrobat will automatically enable over-print preview. Of course, there's still no guarantee that they will notice it (especially if it's a light color).

In this situation, I unfortunately think the liability falls with the printer. While getting customer approvals can be a challenging and slow down your production process, they provide security for situations that you described. If the customer "signed off" on a proof and then complained about the printout, you have a "get out of jail free" card. Granted if they did not view the PDF properly, you could still have some problems.

How are you making your proofs? You mentioned "ripping" your proofs. Are you provided them an objected based PDF? You could try providing a rasterized PDF (depends on your workflow and type of jobs).

 

[kansasquaker]

We would probably end up eating the job, but IMO it's the customer's problem. Overprinting exists for a reason and some people do know how to use it properly. Imagine they did want that color to overprint and you disabled it. Now, that would definitely be the printer's fault. Basically the customer told the software what they wanted and now don't like the result. What if they had made a line of copy a blue color but had really wanted red, would that be the printers fault as well? The only thing that makes this situation different is the customer's ignorance of the boxes they were clicking.

But like I said, we'd probably eat it. And I doubt that sending the customer a proof would have helped either. I can imagine our customers still expecting us to rerun the job even if they signed off on it . . .

 

[gordo]

We would probably end up eating the job, but IMO it's the customer's problem.

And that, in a nutshell, is why most printers can't make a profit.

Best, gordo

 

[Stephen Marsh]

And that, in a nutshell, is why most printers can't make a profit.

Best, gordo

Not to mention all racing each other to the bottom on pricing and attempting to beat each on the lowest price.


Stephen Marsh

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Greg brings up a good point that is often repeated on this website - use and encourage the use of PDF print standards and Acrobat Reader or Pro for softproof proofing, not another PDF viewer (it using say Prinergy InSite PrePress Portal or InSite Creative Workflow, then it is of course OK to use SmartReview client for softproof approval).

When previewing the CMYK+Spot image in Acrobat Pro or perhaps other prepress software such as Virtual Proofing in Prinergy, when viewing the separations - start with a composite view. Then toggle on/off the spot colour, you should be able to see the knockout vs. overprint.


Stephen Marsh

 

[leonardr]

In addition to all the excellent advice already posted, I will make one additional comment based on the old joke.

Customer: It never prints right when I use overprinting.
Printer: So don't use overprinting.

Obviously, getting customers to do the right thing isn't going to happen .

However, in this case, you have an under-documented tool in Acrobat to help you. -- "Overprint Flattening"

Like Transparency Flattening, where transparency is removed but the exact look of the document is maintained using traditional printing methods. Overprint flattening will remove all aspects of overprint from the document while giving you a document that looks exactly as it should!

It's one of the default FixUps in Preflight and you can use it directly from Preflight, assign it to an Action or create a droplet or ... It's a GREAT tool for your arsenal in dealing with less-than-qualified users.

 

[Simon Ivarsson]

This is very easy to detect with for example Esko's Viewer for Illustrator where you can highlight overprints.
Another option could be to use the "select by attributes" tool where you can select all overprint object.

If you need a real pdf editor (non destructive) you should have a look at NEO. You have the same functionality there.

wkr
Simon

 

[robert]

You could try providing a rasterized PDF (depends on your workflow and type of jobs).

When we proof with our clients this is what we send out. We send the job through Trueflow to rip a raster proof because it has proven to be very solid in predicting exactly what we'll see on a press sheet. Unfortunately, we run several hundred jobs a day, and the vast majority of clients do not want a proof. In fact, I've had customers get offended for suggesting they take a proof on a job. I think it boils down to they know they are responsible if they view one, where as if they don't, they can argue that it's our fault. The sad reality though is that even if we had proofed this we still likely would have ended up eating the job. I've been trying to make my case for why this problem is not our fault but people don't seem to understand.

However, in this case, you have an under-documented tool in Acrobat to help you. -- "Overprint Flattening"

Like Transparency Flattening, where transparency is removed but the exact look of the document is maintained using traditional printing methods. Overprint flattening will remove all aspects of overprint from the document while giving you a document that looks exactly as it should!

It's one of the default FixUps in Preflight and you can use it directly from Preflight, assign it to an Action or create a droplet or ... It's a GREAT tool for your arsenal in dealing with less-than-qualified users.

Thanks for this tip! I will definitely give this tool a test drive and see how it works out. Just one question about it, does it just turn the overprinting off or does it flatten it, making the new object the color it would have been with overprint?

We would probably end up eating the job, but IMO it's the customer's problem.

This unfortunately has been my experience with this problem. Almost no one understands what overprinting is when I discuss it with a customer and because they don't they refuse to believe it's something they did that caused the issue. It's just very frustrating to have to eat a job that we did not cause the problems on.


Overall the replies have pretty much affirmed what I expected. It's a fight that I expect to lose even with being on the correct side of the fight I still struggle, however, to understand how customers accidentally turn this on for an object. It seems to be very rare, and I catch the vast majority of it by comparing our raster pdf output against their original file w/ overprint preview off. Relying on sight to see something like this is basically guaranteeing that you'll miss it every once in a while unfortunately.

Thanks for all of the input! If anyone else has something to add I'd be very interested to hear it

 

[CathieH]

robert = "The supplied file was a PDF. The job went to press without customer approval, as the vast majority of our jobs do."

Oh, my - I don't believe I've ever heard of a printer who didn't CYA with getting a customer to approve the actual print job. There are too many designers out there that know nothing about how to set up a file to print without having them approve the job before it goes to press.

We never even allowed an online (email) PDF proof - the client HAD to look at the actual printed piece, exactly as it would print, before running the full quantity of the job.

Just my $.02, but CYA for a printer is imperative. Gordo is right - eat too many jobs and you'll be looking for one.

Cathie

 

[michaelejahn]

Who uses overprinting ? And why ? Tell them to stop. If you shipped the print job to the wrong address, they would not like it, would they ? Of course they would say "you used the wrong address !" They used the wrong set-up - you processed it, correctly, just like the USPS followed the instructions on the envelope.

I suppose this could be used as an educational / teaching moment - for your customer, and your team.

As Leonard suggested - you already have a tool - "Overprint Flattening".

Hope that helps.

 

[robert]

robert = "The supplied file was a PDF. The job went to press without customer approval, as the vast majority of our jobs do."

Oh, my - I don't believe I've ever heard of a printer who didn't CYA with getting a customer to approve the actual print job. There are too many designers out there that know nothing about how to set up a file to print without having them approve the job before it goes to press.

We never even allowed an online (email) PDF proof - the client HAD to look at the actual printed piece, exactly as it would print, before running the full quantity of the job.

Just my $.02, but CYA for a printer is imperative. Gordo is right - eat too many jobs and you'll be looking for one.

Cathie

Maybe it's just a different segment of the business, but we do large quantities of small run jobs. The nature of the work is fast turn around and most clients do not want to see one at all. Forcing customers to take a proof on something they want fast works against the process, and would in the end cause the client to be unhappy.

That said, we don't eat a lot of jobs at all. Overprinting occurs on maybe 1 in a thousand jobs, and it is caught in almost every case. Having to reprint at our expense occurs very rarely (maybe a few times a year) and since the work is all low quantity work gang run with other jobs, it's not worth the fight in most cases. It just frustrates me to redo work that we've done correctly due to a file issue that came from the client. It's difficult to explain to CS people who don't really have any in depth knowledge of what it is, or to clients directly in almost every case. I would say the vast majority of our client base don't actually create files, and so they have a hard time understanding why something they view fine in reader comes out different.

Hopefully we can implement overprint flattening without too much trouble and it will fix the issues though. I was unaware of this tool and have messed around a little with it this morning and I think it is probably exactly what we need to prevent having to fight this anymore, that is until we have a file setup with the overprint intentionally. Luckily though I would say this is far more rare than people using it without understanding it's purpose.

 

[Greg_Firestone]

Who uses overprinting ? And why ?

It's actually used quite a bit in the newsprint world for small 100% black text and vector objects. Many newspapers use file correction software to apply overprinting or use basic overprint settings in their RIPs.

Greg

 

[ajr]

The customer must have set it up that way, their problem!

I dont think Pantone Yellow overprints by default!

A

 

[dabob]

Strangely enough I have see an experienced designer tag white type in Illustrator as overprint . . . then when he looked at the proof he sez . . . "where did the type go" . . . so it happens sometime by design and sometimes not . . . just one of the thousand things we need to look at these daze with digital files . . .

Life is so much simpler now that the customer is doing the technical work for us isn't it!!!!!

 

[Bill W]

In Acrobat Preflight Profiles, there is one named Potential Overprint Problems. I made a file that had two identical boxes both stroked with PMS 032 (red) and filled with PMS 012 (yellow). One box had stroke set to overprint and the other box did not. The preflight profile identified the overprinted stoke and showed me that object.

Acrobat Preflight has good canned profiles, and one can make their own. Very helpful in finding these potential "printing landmines".

 

[leonardr]

Thanks for this tip! I will definitely give this tool a test drive and see how it works out. Just one question about it, does it just turn the overprinting off or does it flatten it, making the new object the color it would have been with overprint?

It removes all overprinting instructions and instead creates new objects that are the "final" color.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

It removes all overprinting instructions and instead creates new objects that are the "final" color.

Leonard, unless I am missing something, this would not have fixed this particular issue. Even if the overprint is simulated, the yellow is still not performing a visual knockout... The issue was that there should be no overprint, whether it is a true overprint command or one simulated via flattening tricks.


Stephen Marsh