Plate developer re-circ systems

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The boss is looking at a plate developer extender system. This system uses 50% less replenisher by filtering existing developer and adding half as much replenisher when the processor signals for a shot of replenisher.
Is there anyone with experience with this type of system? Does the system work, short term and long term? Any plate quality issues? Does the plate performance degrade as the chemistry is used during the time between chemistry changes?
We are running a Luxel Vx-9600 CTP with LP-NV2 plates.
Thanks for any imput.
 
We (Kodak) supply a similar system for our Thermal Gold plates, and it works fairly well. Typically it's best suited to mid-to-high volume applications where the overflow developer hasn't been overly oxidized by time (air exposure). If there are users of these systems online, I'd love to hear your direct feedback too.

I'm not sure how well the Fuji system works, but typically violet/photopolymer plates are more sensitive to processing parameters, and even environmental factors such as humidity. If well controlled it shouldn't be a problem, but it depends on your environment.

Kevin.
 
IMHO - I don't see any reason to filter violet/photopolymer plates Developer. Being oxidized by air that Developers loose PH features too fast. You will get a tank of clean but crappy fluid.
In my former AGFA practice I have met such a kind of Dev restoration units for THERMAL and conventional plates only.
 
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Hi Vlad - there are two different types of units here, and I think "new user" means the other type:

1) a "super filter" type system, which simply extends the bath life by filtering out more particulates than a normal filter system. Usually this is a high-pressure filter system which actively pumps the developer through a much finer screen to remove more suspended material. This is really only effective on systems where you end up changing the bath because of sludge, rather than because of oxidation or depletion of the chemistry. Such systems are sold by a number of third parties - but normally vendors would rather put their efforts into developing cleaner-working chemistry/plate systems in the first place.

2) a "filter mixer" type system - like the one I described from Kodak for Thermal Gold type systems. This is also what he describes - it filters the spent developer, but re-mixes some of it with fresh replenisher to put back into the tank. This is effective because the overflow developer really isn't fully spent yet (after all, the overflow is at the same activity level as the rest of the tank - only the replenisher itself is more active). This works well in higher-volume shops where you can save 30-50% of your replenisher volume. However it's not ideal for lower volume applications where oxidation would act faster than the replenishment keeps up (or you'd have to turn up your replenishment rate to compensate - negating the benefits).

Kevin.
 
Thanks, Kevin!
You are absolutely right in your explanations, and I have not thought about high volume print-shops where re-circ systems should work profitably.
 
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Plate chemistry extenders.

Plate chemistry extenders.

We run the same VX-9600 and the same LP-NV2 plates at our facilities and have been running the Plate Chemistry Xtender from Process Management Technologies for over a year on one of our processors with great success so we have installed one on our other Ctp line this past fall. In a side by side comparison we have saved at least 50% on our replinisher. during our busy season we run up to 2500 40" plates through each machine. We have run over 30,000 plates with the Extender with zero quaility issues. This was not the case when we tried other chemistry extenders. Larry Brumley P.S. Hope this helps!!!
 
We have been running the Plate Chemistry Extender from Process Management Technologies for right on 30 days. We have decided to keep the product, so far so good. Looking for a generic filter to save some cost on replacement, any help?
 
Good day Gentlemen.

Being a former technician for Fuji film and highly trained on CTP devices I was quite skeptical. I was very much against the PCX system, Then one of my daily customers decided to put one in for testing. Being a representative of fuji (Manufacture of chemical) I highly disagreed with the customer. Stating this will void the service contract and Fuji would not assist if a problem would arise if there where any plate issues. I will get back to this in a moment

This customer who wants to be nameless has 4 VX9600 fully auto systems and is a very high volume shop. If I did not come up with a reason why they should not use the system it would cut there chemical use in half. I started monitoring the developer bath section for a few weeks with my myron 6L meter. I measured fresh chemical and I came up with a PH of 12.2 and a conductivity reading of about 1100. 4 weeks later when they decided to dump the chemical the PH and conductivity read 12.0 and 1095 and at 4200 40 inch plates this was over double of what they would normally get without the unit installed and cleaning the processor time was cut in half. With the bad news I immediately called my supervisor, salesperson and plate technician.

Getting back to the service contract issue. I had a meeting with the supervisor of the shop 2 days after the testing and he had asked me "Ray, what where your findings." Being a technician and a fuji representative I walked a fine line. I stated to him "I can give you the facts and you will have to decide for the information I give you." With the information given he was going to push his chemical even farther on the next batch. I do not know what the overall outcome of the test was. Before I could finish my testing I was let go from Fuji.

I was not in the shop when the plate tech and sales had informed him that service contract and plate support would be void if they proceeded with using the device. Nonetheless, I heard from the operator that the supervisor then stated "If this is the case you can come get your machines and get them the *&*#$%^ out of my shop. No one tells me what I can and can not do in my shop"

Back peddle back peddle back peddle

The funniest thing is that they are still paying there service contracts, buying plates and still are being supported with the devices installed on all there machines. They have cut there replenishment ordering in half and the rebatch of the processors 1-1/2 times as long. To add insult to injury I believe so much in the units that I am now installing and servicing them.

By the way, since this customer has cut his effluent he uses half of the neutralizing (citric acid) to treat the chemical that he now buys from process management. The unit has cut his carbon footprint for the environment for plate making. Since we are all trying to be responsible for the environment isn't this a good thing or is it a bad thing since someone stands to loose money.

I close my statement with this last thing.
Why wouldn't the manufactures embrace such a device and incorporate this in there overall sale. As a consumer if I was told my chemical would not just be cut in half but also twice as long between a rebatch why would I lend my ear to the information

By the way, that is a generic filter made by procam and at 26.00 that is cheaper than my filter on my water system on my refrigerator. I dont think you are going to find a filter any cheaper.

if you have any questions or want refrences please feel free to email me at [email protected]

Ray
 
Very impressive novel !
Thanks a lot, Ray!
Not wondered by incorporative policy and behaviour - the same sh...t what oil corporations do with all innovatives in new energy sources and researches - buy new ideas and patents and hide them away.
Don't care of grands but care of "Grants"
 
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KInda wordy I think. Please excuse my wild tangents. I stand corrected on the filter. The filter is manufactured by Process Managment Inc. and not Procam.
 
Okay! Thank You for your input. Process Management explained to me that the way the extender works, is that it will filter out the photo polymers and contaminates. I'm not using a photo polymer plate. It is a Saphira Violate Plate. Can you help me with the benefits of this situation
 
Yes I can. You have a thermo plate. I know that the PCX unit is actively being used on the Fuji thermo system with pretty good success at about a 30-35 percent chemical savings. I know prisco had one that worked but not as well. may I ask where you are located?

If you can give me some time I may have more information for you
 
Thank you for your patients. I had a email swap with the Guru. here is the jist of our email:

This is a violet silver-based plate manufactured by Agfa. In fact its sold by Agfa as the Lap-V. We have over 100 PCX's installed on processors running this plate. We realize a 50% reduction in replenishment usage on this plate and chemistry.
 
Please let me know where can I find Replenisher Photopolymer Plate Agfa PL 10 R in 55 gals drum??
Many thanlks for your kind help.
Best regards,
Gilberto
Miami,Fla.
 
We use less than 400 20X29 Fuji LP_NV2 plates a month. Does this make sense for a small shop?

Thanks
Jeff
 
ctp dev re-circ

ctp dev re-circ

You may want to take a look at the DLX-PRO unit. 50% savings in dev and more plate production. No changes made to the processor and no warranty issues. check out the website for more info Home
Bob
 
The Xtender worked great for our shop.

The Xtender worked great for our shop.

We make about 1,000 plates a month in our shop and had the Xtender for a little over a year. It payed for itself and then-some. We have recently decided to move to a chemical free plate and will no longer need the unit.

I don't know who a direct contact for sales would be but I speak very frequently with Jill at Process Management Technologies, Inc. The number there is 540.387.9449. Just tell her Ryan from St Paul gave the information.

Hope this helps!
 
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