polijet

[TDS print]

Hello,
I'm new to the fourm............does anyone know about the PoliJet CTP system from Novatech.

I am looking for the hydrophilic polyester plate material..............I have all the other components to the system - except the plate material.

thanks in advance.
Don.

 

[hagar]

Hello,
I'm new to the fourm............does anyone know about the PoliJet CTP system from Novatech.

I am looking for the hydrophilic polyester plate material..............I have all the other components to the system - except the plate material.

thanks in advance.
Don.

I have taken a look at it looks interesting, you say you have the other parts already, what kind of software and fusing unit are you using?

 

[TDS print]

all I need is the plate material................
- epson printer
- 12 inch desktop laminator
- photoshop

 

[SteveAgfa]

TDS -

Have you tried contacting the manufacturer
to find a local distributor?

PoliJet : Contact Us

Polijet is marketed by our friends at TechNova in India.

Regards,

 

[TDS print]

Yes........they have no local distributors as of yet............
I will just wait and see - if they get any local to me.
the technology seem like a no-brainer............I'll keep my eyes and ears open for local suppliers of their product.

 

[discountprinting]

Polijet plates

Polijet plates

Hurst Graphics is the USA distributor. I'm going to demo the system this month & buy it if it works to my liking.

 

[discountprinting]

Also I strongly recommend using their RIP & post processor. The RIP is specifically set up to work with their plate material in terms of how much ink is put on the plate, a key element in making the system work from what I have learned about it. I have been reading about this technology since Nov. 07, and extensively searched for information but it is so new there is not alot online about it, mainly on technova's site. Also from what I understand, the Epson printers they sell as part of the system have been modified in some way to make the system work, but I don't know exact details on this. I have been trying to get my hands on some of this plate material since Nov. to do some testing on my own. Also there are 2 other systems you should look at two before making a decision, one by Jetplate and the other by Gluz & Jensen, both use inkjet technology & Epson based printers, but the plates are metal & will give longer run lengths. And the price for both has been advertised as dropped to around $25K, the quote I got for the polyester system from Technova was $18K. I am concerned to see if the post processing heat will cause the polyester plates to shrink any or distort from the heat, which wouldn't be much better that the smart plates except for this system has no toner scatter on the plates unlike the SmartPlate laser printer plate system. Hope this helps.

 

[TDS print]

Hello discountprinting,

thank you for your input...........most everything you stated is correct.

I've contacted the head office in India.........they put me on to some people in Texas.........they put me on to some peolpe in Jersey...........everyone was somewhat helpful.......but nobody had any answers.............the system is too new

My main concern is support and supplies for the system...........18K is a lot of printing to eat if you get caught with no tech support ...........this was the problem with xante here in Canada........very weak tech support for their laser plate systems. So I developed my own for 5K.........and it works fine............it's 8 years old, but still works.......and I can replace it with the okidata system tomorrow for a grand cheaper.............

I have found a US supplier that will sell just the plate material.

Pls. forward me your email ..............I would like to send you a link with more info on the system.............I 'm not sure how to do it in a fourm and have it work.
[email protected]

 

[discountprinting]

TDS, just wanted to give you an update. I decided not to go with Hurst for several reasons. I have continued to research on the inkjet ctp, and found a used Epson 7600 that I picked up for $100.00 from a photo lab that went out of business. This is where it gets good. The print head on the 7600 has the same dpi (2880x1440) as the 4800/7800 Technova sells with their system. The only difference is the 7800 series uses 8 ink channels instead of 7 on the 7600. I found my 7600 by accident on Craigslist, so I figured for $100.00 I couldn't go wrong. The print head was clogged which I knew buying it (seller told me) so I spent some time cleaning the head. There is a paper sensor issue, which says paper jam when there is not and that is about a $200 repair so I am just waiting for a day when I can take it to Kennesaw GA to have them fix it. While i have it there I am going to have them replace a few components that wear which should bring it back to like new condition for very little investment. Online the other night, I stumbled across a Jetplate 7600 installation manual (pdf) which showed the Epson 7600 right out of the box, removing the spindle assembly and attaching brackets & the plate holder & cover assembly. It also made reference to using Jetplate's cartridges (proprietary imaging fluid) instead of the Epson Ultrachrome K3 inks. So I believe if I flushed out the lines I could buy the Jetplate cartridges & the plate/cover assembly and have me a Jetplate 7600. But I thought about it and came to the conclusion that there is no need to change imaging fluids if the Epson inks work on Technova's Polijet, not to mention they are probably less cost than the Jetplate special imaging fluid. The plate holder/cover I might invest in as this might help keep plates in a more consistent position when loading into the 7600. iCTP by Glunz-Jensen using the same Epson print head engines too. So the quality should be the same with my set up. This was re-assured by several RIP companies I contacted. From what I found out the RIP is very important to making the system work and this print head on the 7600 is fine @2880x1440 for this application. Think about it, many imagesetters image @ 1200, 1800 & 2400 dpi (though some are higher) so stands to reason that 2880x1440 should work well. Basically, I believe I can have the same quality of a system inkjet CTP as the 18K Polijet, the $25K iCTP or $29K Jetplate systems for a fraction of the price:

Epson 7600 (used) $100.00
refurbishing of 7600 $250.00
Wasatch SP RIP software $1995.00 (color separation version)
laminator for post baking plate $500.00
TOTAL COST $2845.00(not counting consumable inks & Polijet plate costs)

That's over $15K saved over Hurst/Technova's price for the whole system!!!

Also learned that litho printers as well as screen printers & flexo printers are using this same technology for years with these inkjet printers as imagesetters to produce high quality inkjet film separations comparable to those of true imagesetters with excellent results.

The Wasatch RIP seems to be the best RIP out there with FM Stochastic/Hybrid Screening technology and certified moire free screens, and you can't beat the price. I think this is the RIP I will most likely go with.

I haven't had a lot of time the last couple of months to work with my system I am putting together but hopefully that will change over the next month & I will be up & running. But I am saving a substantial amout of cash going the route I am and I am in no big hurry - actually I can't wait to get it running plates but saving the cash is worth a little wait especially with this recession.

Hope this helps,
John

 

[Internal_R&D_Analyst]

Printware showed a demonstration at Graph expo of running a polyester plate material through an epson printer that's the first and last step before mounting it on the press. They said the same epson can make proofs and then they use just the magenta unit to image the plate, nothing special at all.

Printware Introduces New Chem-Free InkJet Plates and CtP System - Printing Industry News from WhatTheyThink

 

[badar]

ictp glunz jensen

ictp glunz jensen

Hullo brother its really nice to see that you are doing a great job, its really great of you, as i am also very interested in having one ictp like glunz jensen but they are not willing to supply one to India as i like this machine very much may i request you to help me build one like you are building can u help me with which printer i buy and what are needed for building this machine ill be very greatfull to you if you can help me, please reply me on my email id [email protected]. thanks once again and hope tp recieve your reply early.
Best Regards
Badar Mumtaz.

TDS, just wanted to give you an update. I decided not to go with Hurst for several reasons. I have continued to research on the inkjet ctp, and found a used Epson 7600 that I picked up for $100.00 from a photo lab that went out of business. This is where it gets good. The print head on the 7600 has the same dpi (2880x1440) as the 4800/7800 Technova sells with their system. The only difference is the 7800 series uses 8 ink channels instead of 7 on the 7600. I found my 7600 by accident on Craigslist, so I figured for $100.00 I couldn't go wrong. The print head was clogged which I knew buying it (seller told me) so I spent some time cleaning the head. There is a paper sensor issue, which says paper jam when there is not and that is about a $200 repair so I am just waiting for a day when I can take it to Kennesaw GA to have them fix it. While i have it there I am going to have them replace a few components that wear which should bring it back to like new condition for very little investment. Online the other night, I stumbled across a Jetplate 7600 installation manual (pdf) which showed the Epson 7600 right out of the box, removing the spindle assembly and attaching brackets & the plate holder & cover assembly. It also made reference to using Jetplate's cartridges (proprietary imaging fluid) instead of the Epson Ultrachrome K3 inks. So I believe if I flushed out the lines I could buy the Jetplate cartridges & the plate/cover assembly and have me a Jetplate 7600. But I thought about it and came to the conclusion that there is no need to change imaging fluids if the Epson inks work on Technova's Polijet, not to mention they are probably less cost than the Jetplate special imaging fluid. The plate holder/cover I might invest in as this might help keep plates in a more consistent position when loading into the 7600. iCTP by Glunz-Jensen using the same Epson print head engines too. So the quality should be the same with my set up. This was re-assured by several RIP companies I contacted. From what I found out the RIP is very important to making the system work and this print head on the 7600 is fine @2880x1440 for this application. Think about it, many imagesetters image @ 1200, 1800 & 2400 dpi (though some are higher) so stands to reason that 2880x1440 should work well. Basically, I believe I can have the same quality of a system inkjet CTP as the 18K Polijet, the $25K iCTP or $29K Jetplate systems for a fraction of the price:

Epson 7600 (used) $100.00
refurbishing of 7600 $250.00
Wasatch SP RIP software $1995.00 (color separation version)
laminator for post baking plate $500.00
TOTAL COST $2845.00(not counting consumable inks & Polijet plate costs)

That's over $15K saved over Hurst/Technova's price for the whole system!!!

Also learned that litho printers as well as screen printers & flexo printers are using this same technology for years with these inkjet printers as imagesetters to produce high quality inkjet film separations comparable to those of true imagesetters with excellent results.

The Wasatch RIP seems to be the best RIP out there with FM Stochastic/Hybrid Screening technology and certified moire free screens, and you can't beat the price. I think this is the RIP I will most likely go with.

I haven't had a lot of time the last couple of months to work with my system I am putting together but hopefully that will change over the next month & I will be up & running. But I am saving a substantial amout of cash going the route I am and I am in no big hurry - actually I can't wait to get it running plates but saving the cash is worth a little wait especially with this recession.

Hope this helps,
John

 

[Eyal Gragir]

can the wasatch rip be configured to use magenta as the ink for ctp as you describe?is it a simple setup in the wasatch or an extra s/w needed?

 

[hagar]

To all the people that are looking are epson printers for CTP, I have a question, I am curious is your preference dirt cheap polyester based systems or a real metal plates imaged on an epson?

 

[Eyal Gragir]

Well, both ! good poliester for the shorter runs and metal for medium runs. sometimes cheap is advantegeous over un-neccesary quality.

 

[apjjr]

discountprinting,
I'm looking into setting up a ctp system myself and need to do it as cheaply as possible. I don't yet know if polyester plates will stand up to my runs of up to 30,000. We manufacture filing systems and print folder panels. Heavy paper, 140 to 475 lb tag and pressboard stocks. But, I was interested in how it was working for you. Seeing as I am new to CTP, what is the polyester process. What's the heat for? Seems to me that you are just printing on the plate with a single color ink and going to press. Is there somewhere I can get a good detailed explanation of the process?
Thanks for any help,
Alex

 

[Eyal Gragir]

ctp

ctp

try
VIM Technologies, Home Page
browse a little and you will find an explanation. they use epson original ink
or
www.glunz-jensen.com
they use epson print engine with their own inkjet liquid instead.
enjoy
eg

 

[stuff4print]

iCtP

iCtP

1. The Epson 7600, even with it's resolution of 2880x1440, is not the best printer they ever built. The head is a very poor set-up, and gives loads of "noise" when used to image screens, especially AM or Conventional screens. It works ok if you only want low lpi screens (100 ish) or are happy using stochastic (FM) screens. So to get one for $100 and have it re-built sounds like a bargin if expectations are resonable.

2. The printer is more important than some on here have suggested.

3. The channels in the JetPlate printer not used by their fluid can easily be used for Epson's own ink to image PoliJet, and the JetPlate RIP or the PoliJet RIP are both capable of controlling both channels seperatly. The Wasatch RIP cannot do this. So it is possible to use PoliJet Plates through a JetPlate System, and get both Polyester and metal plates.

4. PoliJet plates do not suffer from shrinkage when baked - the baking temperature is very low - 250F (120C).

 

[Eyal Gragir]

Wasatch SP has capability to print separations using black, that is for sure !
My original question (see up the thread) for this discussion was how , if at all , can I configure other colors rather than black, instead.
As of print quality using epson 7880 (not 7600), a correct selection of angles and mesh that fit the printer can avoid many of the artifacts, in some cases output quality is similar to ofsset, but of course, as the mesh goes up these options dissapear. But then, should we use poliester for applications that require 250 lpi?
eyalg

 

[stuff4print]

Wasatch SP has capability to print separations using black, that is for sure !
My original question (see up the thread) for this discussion was how , if at all , can I configure other colors rather than black, instead.
As of print quality using epson 7880 (not 7600), a correct selection of angles and mesh that fit the printer can avoid many of the artifacts, in some cases output quality is similar to ofsset, but of course, as the mesh goes up these options dissapear. But then, should we use poliester for applications that require 250 lpi?
eyalg

The Wasatch RIP is a very fine product; however, it has been designed for making FILM separations using an inkjet printer. Therefore as you quite correctly say it is very capable of producing a separation using the black ink channel.

TechNova uses the Xante (RipIt) Open Symphony RIP, JetPlate uses a Harlequin RIP. Both are RIPs that have been designed for imaging plates, and have then had printer drivers and other functions added to enable them to do this using an Epson inkjet printer. Both of these RIPs have the ability to print from any of the channels of the printer, because – in the case of TechNova, any ink color can be used to image the plate, not just black, and in the case of JetPlate, you can then use any channel to add the fluid and extend the life of the printer 8 times (in theory).

The last time I tested the Wasatch RIP it did not have the ability to use any other channel other than the Black.

The print heads on the x800 and x880 machines are truly a vast improvement over the 7600 printer. As you correctly say they are capable of producing some very good quality screens if you use 7.5 degree screen angles and not standard litho angles. You also need to “pick and choose” you LPI as you find some LPI are very “noisy” while others are very clean. The print heads on the new x900 machines are even better, and so much faster!
Your questions … should we use inkjet / polyester for 250 lpi … I am of the opinion that if someone is trying to produce work at 250 lpi then they must have a very good press and press operator, so bother trying to produce the job using Polyester plates of any kind.

Polyester plates certainly have a place in the industry, and I think using inkjet technology to image plates will take a real foothold in the coming year. However, the place of the polyester plate is not in the kind of production that requires 250 lpi.

 

[apjjr]

Rip

Rip

Why do I need special RIP software if my software(CorelDraw) can produce separation output in any color right to the printer?
-Alex