Polyester plates printed on Laser printers

[jecraig5]

Hello, I need advice on polyester plates printed on lasers printers.

We currently have a ITEK 430 camera/platemaker that we use for most jobs. I would like to get rid of this machine and just use some sort of digital system. I am not really wanting to buy a CTP system, I want to utilize these polyester plates that can be printed on regular laser printers. For really tight registration and for lots of screens and halftones, I use metal plates.

For some jobs with halftones and fine lines we use polyester plates printed on a HP 5000. We need to "double fuse" the plates when we use those plates. The plates we use were bought five years ago and the company that sold them is no longer in business. So I am looking for a new brand of plates.

So my questions are:

1. What are the best brands for printing lasers plates?

2. What Printers/copiers work best?

Thanks!

 

[maynardsayswhat]

I'm currently in the process of changing over our 1/2 color offset work (a lot of forms on a t-head) to use the Hurst SmartPlate rather than sending everything to film/metal plate. I've used several laser plates in the past and have had the fewest problems with Hurst.

I've imaged the plates with an HP 5000, Xerox Doc12 and now a KM c6500 and aside from a few machine-specific quirks, all three have worked out pretty well. The HP uses a cooler fuser and is commonly considered to induce less shrink but unless you're looking at >1pt trap registration, I've never had major issues with the other output devices.

Generally speaking I don't use laser plates for hairline registration jobs or anything with complicated halftone/gradients. But they work very well for simple k- or 2c-printing in >10m volume runs. Metal plates are still superior in my experience for tight halftones and longer runs but at $1-2 a plate, the laser plates are very attractive for many jobs.

One thing I've noticed is that the substrate can sometimes dictate the plate. With a coarse 20# bond, the finer detail of the halftone dot on a metal plate won't even matter due to spread, for instance.

Hope that helps, good luck!

 

[jecraig5]

Thanks Maynard!

Right now it looks like I have three options for laser plates on the HP 5000:

Hurst Chemical Smartplate
Ultrafine laser plates
Buckingham Laser plates

Does anyone have any reviews or opinions on these three medias?

 

[[email protected]]

jecraig5
I also converted from my itek 430. I tried using poly plates on the HP5000, (I think they were the Genie plate) and had no luck at all. They ran too dry and broke down very fast. I tried the xante plates (sampled and imaged from xante) with the same results. Then I came across the Kimosetter plate maker which images on their own plates using a thermal ribbon method and have had very good results! They run great and I routinely get 5-10m impressions without breaking down (unless there is a tint or screen on the plate, it may break down sooner) You image them right from the computer. I run them on a ryobi 3302 with my standard fountain solution. Hope that helps!

 

[BillJ]

There is also Autotype Omega and Graphline Optima DS. If you have the HP5000 they should work well as long as it is set up correctly. That saves over buying a new printer or a Kimosetter.

 

[robbg439]

I use all brands, never noticed a difference

I use all brands, never noticed a difference

I image plates on a 5100 and use them on a hamada 611. I have used all of the brands you mentioned without ever noticing a difference from one brand to another. I just buy whatever I can find cheapest at a given moment. I'm pretty sure none of these companies are actually manufacturing the polyester substrate, so I would cynically assume it all comes from the same place anyway. Keep in mind that my highest print run is under 1000 impressions, so your mileage may vary.

 

[jecraig5]

Thanks! I appreciate all your input!

 

[OkiTech]

Hi guys, we use HP 5100 with Xante Myriad plates - the best results out of all.
As was mentioned before - you must double fuse the plate - after imaging send a blank page (or with the dot somewhere where it does no matter) and run it again.
Another important thing - printer must be set to "cardstock"
Driver must be "PostScript" also comfigured to "cardstock in by-pass tray"
Resolution must be set to "pro-1200"

Printer have to be in absolutelly great shape - fuser, transfer roller, etc.
Cartridge better OEM.
Everything works fine to about 25 - 40 % of estimated life than some quality loss noticed.
I guess for simplicity and general cost of plate making it is no big deal at all.
Problem with the cartridge that Charge roller picks-up too much of some-kind residue from plates and than quality loss occur. I am a Business equipment service engineer and can easy dis-assembly cartridge and clean that roller, but generelly you would have to change over a half full cartridge to keep quality on the top of what it can be using this system.
Also for longer runs and better registration we use "repositionable glue", just spray back of the plate. It makes Make-ready to be a killer - plate have to unclamped and peeled off everytime for adjustment, but once set with run nice - no stretching, close in register.

 

[OkiTech]

I have to admit that I am a total rookie in printing that went from zero to fix my own presses - no big deal - AB-Dick 360 and Ryobi 3200 pfa, but if it would not be for this set-up (poly plate on HP-5100) We would never get in to offset

 

[PrintingSupply]

Regarding poly plates

Regarding poly plates

As to the question about poly plates and laser printers (the best plates and the best printers), there is no one answer. I've found that the real inexpensive way to get started is to use the HP 5000 or HP 5100 printer, along with poly plates supplied by one of several companies. Although the best known poly plate is probably the Hurst Smartplate, one can save a bit by using the DAA Genie plates ... which is exactly the same plate. So are the Baseline brand plates, I believe. Xante plates (Myriad) are for the Xante platemaker ... a little better quality but more money. If you have a Xante, there is now a cheaper "X" plate which claims to work as well, but I don't think it's quite as good. If you try a poly plate on your 5000 printer and things don't work out right away, don't be surprised. Things have to be just right. The printer has to be in great condition, the settings have to be correct (slowest speed, hottest setting, proper dpi, etc.). Also, many printers have found that baking the plate a bit is a real key. Try running it through a second time while blank. Some inventive folks even bake their plates a few seconds in a shrink wrap tunnel. There are also several plate prep chemicals from Hurst, Xante, DAA and others to help prevent background tinting and toner scatter, and to protect the image area. There's more ... too much to put here. I have a sheet which which I prepared which spells out many of the problems and offers solutions. Folks can let me know if they want me to send one out.

 

[jecraig5]

Thanks for the advice! I would greatly appreciate that sheet with tips and tricks! You can send it to [email protected]

 

[PrintingSupply]

Reply

Reply

Will do. Right now, I'm home. The info is in my office, so I'll have to get back to you with it tomorrow night. (I'm signed up to PrintPlanet only on my home computer.) Larry

 

[jdaghir]

I believe PrintingSupply is correct - the Husrt SmartPlates, DA Genie plates, BaseLine LaserPlates and several of the other laser plate brands are all actually manufactured by TechNova (TechNova Home). The Myriad plates are manufactured by Agfa, but Xante is the exclusive distributor of them here in the US. We used to run Hurst SmartPlates through a HP LaserJet 5000 before we bought a CTP poly plate system. If you're currently shooting photodirect plates in an Itek 430 the screen quality from a laserplate should be as good if not better, but the ink/water receptivity and plate life will be worse. An advantage of the laser plates is that the image will be in nearly the same spot and almost perfectly straight every time. Laser plates are a little bit of a pain to run, but they will work for less demanding 1 & 2 color jobs. But for high quality screens, tight registration or longer runs you will want a metal plate or CTP poly. I've heard some good things about Kimosetters also but I've never ran one.

 

[kyprinter]

PrittingSupply,
I would very much like one of your laser plate problems and solutions sheets. My email is [email protected]

Thanks much!

 

[last_word_press]

Hello,

I'm interested in the sheet you prepared on poly-plate problems and solutions. Would it be possible to get a copy? Thanks.

Robert

 

[jecraig5]

A bit of an update....

We have been running the Buckingham laser plates for two weeks now, and the pressman is saying he is getting much better results (Image wise) than the plates from the ITEK 430. The main concern is the plates tend to get "dirty" during the run and he has to "wash" the plate every 500 to 1000 impression with the plate prep chemical.

I am pretty sure that this problem is a result more from the age and condition of the HP 5000, then the plate material. Any opinions on that?

Question is, how much better is the Xante platmaker 6 than using the HP 5000? is it worth the 6,000 cost to get an Xante? I ran a test plat from Xante that I got from the Print Expo in chiago, and thought it was great.

 

[graficworx]

I've been using Hurtst SmartIO plates for a while now, imaged on a Okidatea 9650, for single color jobs, and they work great. I have run up to 12,000 impressions with very little stretch on a pinbar press. One thing I have noticed is I have to double the concentrate of fountain to keep things going good, and make sure you clean the plate first with the prep wash. If you stop the press for a paper jam or reload, you have to clean the plate, just use fountain solution, and it cleans up fine. They work relatively well for up to 133 lpi or so halftone k work. Over that its not so good, atleast in my experience. For simple stuff like forms, its great.

 

[PrintingSupply]

I can send you a copy via e-mail if you give me your e-mail address, or I can send it by snail-mail if you give me your physical address. thanks for asking. Larry

 

[KimSaks]

Hello, I need advice on polyester plates printed on lasers printers.

We currently have a ITEK 430 camera/platemaker that we use for most jobs. I would like to get rid of this machine and just use some sort of digital system. I am not really wanting to buy a CTP system, I want to utilize these polyester plates that can be printed on regular laser printers. For really tight registration and for lots of screens and halftones, I use metal plates.

For some jobs with halftones and fine lines we use polyester plates printed on a HP 5000. We need to "double fuse" the plates when we use those plates. The plates we use were bought five years ago and the company that sold them is no longer in business. So I am looking for a new brand of plates.

So my questions are:

1. What are the best brands for printing lasers plates?

2. What Printers/copiers work best?

Thanks!

Call Erick at Pressman's Pride... 916-508-3387
He has the plates and all the info you need.

 

[BillJ]

The HP5000 was the best printer but is no longer produced. I have seen the plates work in many models of printers and copiers so I cant say what is "best". The main issues are that the toner be laid down at the minimum amount to give clean copy and that the plates be fused at the highest possible temperature. I would see about getting a new box of plates since 5 years is a long time. Also, most of the plate manufacturers recommend that you use the OEM toner. They all use the same basic technology so see if you can get some plate samples from the dealers in your area. They will never give you the run length and quality of a Silvermaster but for many jobs they will do the job.