Positive vs. Negative CTP

[roller61]

Lenticular Printing?

Lenticular Printing?

Any reasons to think that lenticular work (screening) would print differently on either a positive or negative plate? If so, why?

 

[maas]

We have experienced some issues with the positive XD plate where the clamp shadow has exacerbated plate slippage in the clamp ( on a well used Roland 700 ), in my opinion the metallurgy of the XD is different than the Sword, the XD seems to have more spring, however both are made 1025 aluminium.

We are waiting to trail the Trillian SP and have refurbished the clamps on the R700 press, we have experienced no issues on our web press fleet ( we use aproximately 32000 plates per anum)

 

[KevinC@EFI]

Any reasons to think that lenticular work (screening) would print differently on either a positive or negative plate? If so, why?

Lenticular is a challenging application that relies on extremely high resolution and screening, high geometric accuracy, as well as "crisp" printing to separate one image from the next.

None of that intrinsically relates to positive or negative plates though... the only universal aspects of which today are in the presence (or absence, for negative plates) of gripper bar shadows on the plate after imaging. For any other feature, there are always exceptions - so you have to look at the details of each plate individually, separate from being positive or negative.

Not knowing what you use today, I'd suggest a 10-micron qualified plate such as our Electra XD (positive) or DITP Gold/Thermal Gold (negative). However, our new Trillian SP seems to have some very unique and beneficial printing characteristics that we're still quantifying - which would benefit the "crispness" of your printed image.

There are other options on the market too, of course.

Kevin.

 

[fiatlux]

"our new Trillian SP seems to have some very unique and beneficial printing characteristics that we're still quantifying - which would benefit the "crispness" of your printed image."

That's rather intriguing. Without quantifying, could you explain what those printing characteristics might be?

FL

 

[KevinC@EFI]

That's rather intriguing. Without quantifying, could you explain what those printing characteristics might be?

FL

I don't have enough data to make any claims at this point unfortunately - just some anecdotal opinions and a few laboratory press tests from one of our IPEX print partners. It's related to how "clean and crisp" the printing dot is, giving better definition and better dot gain. Those are hard things to prove on a universal basis though, so as I said - it's too soon to say if it's something everyone will benefit from.

Kevin.

 

[roller61]

Posi vs. Neg

Posi vs. Neg

It is an interesting thing to say; what I am looking for, is some science behind the statements. From my perspective, unlike the film to plate process, a CTP writing machine does not care in the slightest, whether it's writing a neg or a pos dot; the laser travels across the drum, and images what it sees; therefore the only factor that would determine a benefit, would be in the "resolution" of the plate, which in this case means it's ability to accept and hold very fine variations in the emulsion held to the plate, given the laser exposing the plate, and the chemistry/processor's ability to define the dot. So how you "might" be able to produce a crisper dot in either case, has to do with these factors, or am I missing something? In CTP, my theory, is that it's totally dependent on the plate's emulsion and graining in relation to the processor and chemistry, and not the fact that it's positive or negative.

 

[KevinC@EFI]

It is an interesting thing to say; what I am looking for, is some science behind the statements. From my perspective, unlike the film to plate process, a CTP writing machine does not care in the slightest, whether it's writing a neg or a pos dot; the laser travels across the drum, and images what it sees; therefore the only factor that would determine a benefit, would be in the "resolution" of the plate, which in this case means it's ability to accept and hold very fine variations in the emulsion held to the plate, given the laser exposing the plate, and the chemistry/processor's ability to define the dot. So how you "might" be able to produce a crisper dot in either case, has to do with these factors, or am I missing something? In CTP, my theory, is that it's totally dependent on the plate's emulsion and graining in relation to the processor and chemistry, and not the fact that it's positive or negative.

You're absolutely right - it wouldn't be at all related to it being a negative plate instead of a positive one... that's really secondary other than the fact that you don't get shadows from the CTP clamp. If there is a quantifyable benefit in dot "crispness" (if that's the right term), it would be a chemical property of the emulsion and/or the substrate, in its ability to hold/transfer ink, or better delineate between ink/water.

There's something there - I'm just not sure exactly what it means yet, or how much impact it will have on the average press. When I have more details and data to support it, you can be sure I'll share it!

Kevin.

 

[Van]

Getting back to the original question, we have used negative and positive plates with success.

However, if you are looking for a complete prepress system and up and running is important - then compare support. Agfa, Fuji and Kodak have positive and negative plates but its Kodak customers that experience increased downtime.

Recurring problems seem to make for very angry Kodak customers.....it's never enough to say please fix.......

B4Print.com - Index
Look under Kodak systems:
Upfront sucks
kodak support ..... are you kidding me? - ecentral problems and downtime due to unresolved problems
Shouldn't requesting support be enough? - Kodak response center deletes prinergy workshop and wants to invoice for sending to the field to reinstall weeks later, recurring downs unresolved


Printplanet
Unresolved problems become a 'feature request'
http://printplanet.com/forums/kodak-systems/21634-prinergy-opi-sucks

Kodak sent invoice for looking up parts
http://printplanet.com/forums/kodak-systems/21493-good-reason-call-kodak-bunch-criminals

Prinergy dumped due to poor support, printer fires manager that bought prinergy
http://printplanet.com/forums/kodak-systems/21078-prinergy-did-you-over-buy-under-buy

Presses left down
http://printplanet.com/forums/computer-plate/20449-ctp-problem-no-one-world-can-fix-any-takers/2


Kodak forums:
Kodak (Creo) response center fails to solve problem or even acknowledge problem for over 6 months
I hate kodak - GUA Forums

Preps 6.0 not user friendly
Preps 6.0 = A HOLE IN THE WATER!!!!!! - GUA Forums

Recurring problems with ecentral
ecentral in your greatness!!!!!!! - GUA Forums

Kodak user group shake up, unresolved problems, Kodak (Creo) response center claims they are not responsible for solving problems with kodak equipment etc.
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GUA Bomb - must log in to kodak ecentral to view

GUA Forums - Powered by vBulletin
Looking for printing company to partner with when Magnus down - due to days left down by Kodak - must log in to kodak ecentral to view