Printing 4 colour with a 2 colour press?

[ScotJ]

We're looking at getting an entry level press, and the thought of getting a 2 colour press to build up a work flow, and then migrating to a full four colour press in a bit.

Would this work? I'd imagine we need a good press operator, but is it do-able?

Thanks in advance!

 

[billy gold coast]

scot gday yes its also possible you can print 4 colors on a single color.. personally id print black and cyan first.. color bars on the sheet would be a good idea.. you need a press that registers well.. good idea to wrap your stacks in plastic if your leaving for any length of time in between passes and extra overs as reprints/make ups would be more time consuming..densitometer would be handy to.. good luck

 

[GazKL440]

Yeah its do-able, but yeah you need a good operator! I know plenty of places that never had 4 col presses and didnt farm out 4 col work, and did a good job of it....dont know if they are still around... You will need a good 2 col press, a speedy, a GTO, or a ryobi with a well trained operator, and there are plenty of other capable machines out there, these are just the ones i have experience with, and pullin 4 colour work or 5 or 6 colour and coated was easy enough just time consuming! The last company i worked with had a 512h ryobi that we were able to pull great jobs off with very little drama. A before mentioned a densitometer will help, but a good eye for colour will help more!! Keep plenty of run ups to settle colour down on make readies, and everything that billy has touched on is spot on...

 

[RGPW17100]

We used to call that work pleasing color. Dry trapping the last two colors even with a good press operator makes it hard to match a proof. When producing a dark blue sometimes you have to run the magenta first or it will turn purple. I found running black and yellow first worked the best. Cyan and Magenta seem to have more effect on color matching then the yellow and black. Spray powder becomes an issue two especially for two color work. Depowdering the sheets become necessary.

 

[ScotJ]

Thanks for the info guys, this sounds terrific!

And idea what the approx cost per impression is on say- 12x18 when just factoring in the ink? I'd imagine its alot less than our current digital method (which is $0.10 per color hit on 12x18)

Thanks again!

 

[RGPW17100]

When running process on a 3302 I could run 4 color process on one side of coated in about an hour and a half to two hours. That would be a coated 100 lb gloss text. Waste would be around 500 sheets. That would include the clean up and printing the third and fourth colors. Stock cost around $100 for 2500 sheets plus about 10 bucks of ink, and say two hours of labor plus 30 minutes of pre press time two plates and a color proof. So out of pocket cost would be around $300 for 2000 sheets for one side. That equates to 15 cents a sheet. SM52 I can run this same job in under 30 minutes and only use 200 sheets of waste which I can use the second side on the next run. Indigo is 8 cents a click plus paper and labor and it would take the indigo about 1 hour to run.

 

[rbailleu]

it is possible to run 4 color on 1 or 2 color press, but it is tough to compete on price and speed. over head is lower, but you can find all types of trade guys to send flyers to cheap and good. if you need turn around fast then you need a press. in the long term if you dont have a press, then all you have is a sales position for the trade printer.

 

[GazKL440]

it is possible to run 4 color on 1 or 2 color press, but it is tough to compete on price and speed. over head is lower, but you can find all types of trade guys to send flyers to cheap and good. if you need turn around fast then you need a press. in the long term if you dont have a press, then all you have is a sales position for the trade printer.

Agreed...the jobs that use to take me a couple of hours on a GTOZ or 512H take me maybe 20 mins now on the 40 i run, but its very very rare we do small jobs on it unless ganged up or we are between campaigns....

 

[ScotJ]

it is possible to run 4 color on 1 or 2 color press, but it is tough to compete on price and speed. over head is lower, but you can find all types of trade guys to send flyers to cheap and good. if you need turn around fast then you need a press. in the long term if you dont have a press, then all you have is a sales position for the trade printer.

Agreed- we're merely looking at something to help build up that end of our business for the time being and then either move to a Heidelberg QM DI, or some other small 4 colour press.

 

[mikesmoker]

I run a Hamada 248 2 color press and do 4 color on it and it can be a pain sometimes matching the original. It takes practise doing 2 passes, not only the register is critical but impression, blanket tension, humidity, etc can make or break a job. My nightmare stock is 100# text satin. Always seems to stretch by the time I finish a 4/4. I try to complete one side now before going the other with that stock.
I agree with what was said before, B/Y first then C/M.

 

[rbailleu]

if your thinking qmdi. buy one first you can buy one with upgraded rips for well under $80,000 unless you go pro then that would be more expensive. a good 2 color is going to be over $20,000 a good di makes 4 color quick and easy. consumeables are expensive, but you make up for it in speed.

 

[Rocknronny]

Agreed- we're merely looking at something to help build up that end of our business for the time being and then either move to a Heidelberg QM DI, or some other small 4 colour press.

This won't help you because it just isn't cost effective! Go out and find a good trade printer and you just saved yourself the headache.

RR

 

[cda77]

I learned to print 4 color on a two color press. I tried all the different combinations of what two colors to lay down first. In my humble opinion, laying down cyan and magenta first is easier than the usual black and yellow. In my opinion if you get the cyan and magenta correct on the first pass then black and yellow fall into place as, in my opinion the density of the black and yellow does not effect the final outcome as much as cyan and magenta. I would be very densitometer on the first pass and then can eyeball black and yellow.

 

[gordo]

I learned to print 4 color on a two color press. I tried all the different combinations of what two colors to lay down first. In my humble opinion, laying down cyan and magenta first is easier than the usual black and yellow. In my opinion if you get the cyan and magenta correct on the first pass then black and yellow fall into place as, in my opinion the density of the black and yellow does not effect the final outcome as much as cyan and magenta. I would be very densitometer on the first pass and then can eyeball black and yellow.

IMHO, you are absolutely correct. It also happens to be the ink sequence recommended by Heidelberg. There's a bit of an explanation as to why at the end of the post here:
Quality In Print: Ink Sequence - 4/C process & beyond - part 3 of 4

best, gordon p
My print blog here: Quality In Print
Current topic: Reflect the customers you want to retain

 

[cda77]

Gordon,
Where were you seven years ago with this article lol. I had to discover this through trial and error. Just through trial and error I discovered that laying down C & M first was the best way to go. DESPITE all the 'expert' opinions of either B & Y or B & C first. But wow was I glad when I discover the C&M combination first.
Next time I have any problem is this business I am coming to you first lol

 

[Neil Meggitt]

I learnt to print on a 26" Komori sprint single colour then on the 2 colour version. I think these presses were from the late 1970s'. Not saying go for such old machines but don't buy a flash press and a cheap operator, better to go for a mid range press and a skilled craftsman.

 

[pipinfort]

I spent some time doing my apprenticeship on a Roland Practika, single colour and i managed to make a decent job of a few 4 colours , always did black , yellow then magenta or cyan.... so a 2 colour press should be a breeze......