Printing letterhead on color printers

[jecraig5]

Hello, I am new to the digital production side, I am more of a prepress/offset guy. My question is that the advantage to running letterhead on an offset press is that you can run the letterhead thru a laser printer and there was no problem. If you ran the letterhead thru a laser printer and then ran it back thru the toner would streak and cause problems. Is this still true, or has the newer models of printers fixed this issue?

To be clear, I am running a Canon 5185 and the client has a 3 color letterhead that they want 500 of. My little 3200 ryobi with a t-51, this starts to be expensive with 2 passes and pretty tight registration.

 

[msaeger]

I wouldn't say running it on offset will cause no problem when running it through a laser printer later. The ink comes off on the rollers and causes jams.

 

[Craig]

Once again a copier tech. speaking like a copier tech!

I will NEVER print anything for my customer with toner that needs to be run back through a toner device. You are asking for trouble.

Now with regards to mseager's comment. It depends on what type of ink was used to and how long it has dried. Many of the inks are laser safe after 72 hours of drying. I have run shells through my RICOH MP9000 in runs as high as 100,000 sheets. Does the ink pull off on the rollers, yup. Is it difficult to clean, nope. That's a far cry from 500 sheets too.

 

[Keith]

I print letterheads on my Xante and Xerox all the time. ONCE, I had an issue with a customer were the preprinted toner smeared but it only happened on the SECOND order. Their first order printed fine. They were sending through an HP and I heard they can run hot when the fuser starts to go. I don't know how true that is. What I would recommend, and I do this with all my letterhead orders, is to explain the the customer why your printing it on a toner-based machine and that there is a chance it may smear. Print some samples and have them run it through their machine. If it means saving some money, they'll give it a try. If not, charge appropriately and print it on your Ryobi or send it to a stationary company. A lot of my customers like being a part of the manufacturing process and they enjoy learning something new.

 

[Happyprinter]

We print letterhead on our ryobi 3200 w/T-head all the time and have never had a problem with it being ran thru a laser printer. Regular oil base ink. Usually Toyo.

 

[RGPW17100]

With the ink formulations these days you will have more problems with the spray powder then the ink.

 

[msaeger]

Once again a copier tech. speaking like a copier tech!

I will NEVER print anything for my customer with toner that needs to be run back through a toner device. You are asking for trouble.

Now with regards to mseager's comment. It depends on what type of ink was used to and how long it has dried. Many of the inks are laser safe after 72 hours of drying. I have run shells through my RICOH MP9000 in runs as high as 100,000 sheets. Does the ink pull off on the rollers, yup. Is it difficult to clean, nope. That's a far cry from 500 sheets too.

I'm not saying printing it with toner doesn't cause problems or that it should be printed with toner. I am just saying don't think just because it was printed with ink it won't have a problem. The guy asked if it can be run through a laser printer with no problem.

 

[Craig]

I'm not saying printing it with toner doesn't cause problems or that it should be printed with toner. I am just saying don't think just because it was printed with ink it won't have a problem. The guy asked if it can be run through a laser printer with no problem.

Some days I can't get plain paper to run through my Ricoh let alone pre-printed shells!

 

[pacart]

Yeah, i think ya'll are missing his question, he wants to know the problems with running a digitally printed letterhead back through his customers laser printer.

We print LH on our Konica 6501, but we do it with some reservation. Because there is a lot of different technology out there we require that our customer do a sample run through their office laser before we commit to printing the whole run. That being said about 20% of our customers come back and show us a LH sample that has been heat damaged - this is the usual problem over most any other issue.

So if you want to do LH, then just have your customer try it first, then if it doesn't work go to plan B.

 

[graficworx]

This is an issue a lot of print houses deal with on a regular basis. The problem is based on how "ink" is put on paper. In an offset press, a liquid (although very thick) ink is applied to paper through physical contact and slight pressure. The ink bonds to the paper at a fiber level and dies the paper. Once offset ink is dry, there should be no issues with a laser printer, unless the ink was unusually heavy on the paper. A laser printer uses dry toner "ink", which is applied to the paper by a drum and heated in a fuser. In the fuser the toner particles bond together and grip the paper particles on the surface, key word being surface. Toner has no penetration into the paper. When this toner is run through another laser printer, if the toner becomes hot enough again the toner particles will release from the paper and lift.

Now how often does this happen? It depends on the brand of copier, the type of toner, the type of paper, and the type of printer being used for the second pass. I know, lots of variables. Fuser temperatures inside copiers and printers can very widely, and this is what causes most peoples problems. B&W printers often get the hottest, and are the worst at destroying pre-printed laser. They also get jammed more easily. Color laser printers maintain a more uniform temperature, and often do better.

My recommendation is avoid running laser through laser. In my experience it can cause trouble. I do understand that there are times you need to do this based on small order quantities of fast turn around. As far as digital presses go, only a HP indigo can produce letterhead that rivals offset for re-print reliability. I know there are people here that would disagree with me on that fact, but I feel it to be accurate. However, an Indigo would set you back half a million easy.

If you must run laser letterhead, check with your supplier to see what the fusing temperature of the toner is, and tell your clients they must not exceed this when using in their hardware. In the past few years many companies have developed lower temperature toners to save energy, one of these being Xerox EA toner. If you run an EA toner through an older laser printer that fuses at 150F hotter, toner peel will occur.

Hope that helps you understand the problem alittle more. If you have further questions feel free to ask.

 

[acacia print]

Excellent stuff. I am also new into the digital and have just had advise from our graphic designer who reminded me to tell the customer to do a pre-test of a few sheets to check if it will remain stable in their system. I think that this is the only way to be safe on a case by case situation. Otherwise you will face a request for a "reprint" and we all love those.. Like Keith said customers often like to be part of the process as long as you dont waffle on with too many words. keep what you say susinct...

 

[acacia print]

By the way... how do we start another thread if this is not quite on the topic we want to discuss? I found it once but it seems to be hard to find. maybe they dont want newbee's starting random talks....?? sorry to interupt this thread with this Q...

 

[msaeger]

Some days I can't get plain paper to run through my Ricoh let alone pre-printed shells!

Job security for me