Printing postcards for direct mail promotion

[JewelryDesignConcepts]

We’re a small business and we currently outsource our direct mail postcard printing projects. On the surface the cost to outsource seems expensive compared to printing these in house. We currently pay .40 per 14mm x 9.5mm postcard. We're researching buying our own printer and doing the printing, sorting and mailing in house. We plan to print between 10k-40k postcards monthly, perhaps going as high as 50k on some months particularly toward the end of the year. These postcards have variable data, address along with corresponding customer registration number. The postcard is currently printed black text on yellow 100lb cardstock, no pictures or color with the variable customer address info.
I have a few questions I’m trying to get answers on:

1.) There are several Xerox model 7775 & a very nice Xerox 242 machine for sale on ebay and our local craigslist with low counts. If we plan to only print at max 50k per month it seems buying one of these is the way to go? Is $7k a reasonable amount to pay for a Xerox 242 with 90k black impressions?

2.) I’m assuming the print shop prints these on oversize cardstock paper and cuts down. What is a good source for paper and what is the recommendation for the paper size? The postcard size is 14mm x 9.5mm

3.) Is there a specific paper type that we would need to source that doesn’t smear easily when in the postal system machines or waiting inside a mailbox?

4.) Is it more efficient to print the postcard without the variable data and then have another machine to print the postal info in a separate process?

 

[Possumgal]

I can't answer no. 1, but can go to no. 2. Most digital printers, except the really expensive ones, can print up to 13x19 inches. The more pieces you can get on a sheet, the better. The Xerox 242 can print on up to 250 gsm, if I remember correctly.

As for no. 3, the paper isn't the big problem when smearing, it's the toner. None of it is waterproof unless you coat it after printing, and even then it's not fool proof. The inkjet printer ink is even worse. Some of the newer Okidata machines used for envelopes and the like have toner that is better, but it's more expensive also.

If you have a RIP that handles variable data, doing it all in one pass is preferable if you have a machine that will duplex with good registration.

See if there are any digital printers in your area and see what kind of machines they run. Some may help you out with some info. I'd advise staying away from any machine on ebay that's not close enough for you to see it run. Buying sight unseen only leads to problems.

 

[buckeyewta]

We’re a small business and we currently outsource our direct mail postcard printing projects. On the surface the cost to outsource seems expensive compared to printing these in house. We currently pay .40 per 14mm x 9.5mm postcard. We're researching buying our own printer and doing the printing, sorting and mailing in house. We plan to print between 10k-40k postcards monthly, perhaps going as high as 50k on some months particularly toward the end of the year. These postcards have variable data, address along with corresponding customer registration number. The postcard is currently printed black text on yellow 100lb cardstock, no pictures or color with the variable customer address info.
I have a few questions I’m trying to get answers on:

1.) There are several Xerox model 7775 & a very nice Xerox 242 machine for sale on ebay and our local craigslist with low counts. If we plan to only print at max 50k per month it seems buying one of these is the way to go? Is $7k a reasonable amount to pay for a Xerox 242 with 90k black impressions?

2.) I’m assuming the print shop prints these on oversize cardstock paper and cuts down. What is a good source for paper and what is the recommendation for the paper size? The postcard size is 14mm x 9.5mm

3.) Is there a specific paper type that we would need to source that doesn’t smear easily when in the postal system machines or waiting inside a mailbox?

4.) Is it more efficient to print the postcard without the variable data and then have another machine to print the postal info in a separate process?

Send me an email at [email protected]. You should be able to get tgose done for less than .40 each.

 

[JewelryDesignConcepts]

If you have a RIP that handles variable data, doing it all in one pass is preferable if you have a machine that will duplex with good registration.

Thank you, for your answers. The 242 looks like it will print duplex and the fiery RIP should handle the variable data. Here's one of the printers im looking at!

 

[msaeger]

I would as the meter and serial number and see if Xerox can tell you how much they would want to put it on contract. Unless you are not planning on getting a service contract then good luck

What weight paper do you want to run the cards on? That machine says it will auto duplex 65lb cover.

 

[onwsk8r]

1. 4k USD is a reasonable price. The black impressions don't matter - look at the total impressions. Anything under ~5MM is cool.
2. Where are you geographically? Probably not in the US so I may not be much help. Yes, the 242 will print up to 13x19 inches.
3. No. The postal service mucks up everything, but we love them anyways.
4. Efficient is a relative term. Will the saved time make up the cost of another machine? Probably not.

That being said, you're going to run into a whole host of other expenses and unplanned events. Printing is not something you can just "do", as training an operator takes years. Will you be buying a guillotine cutter to accompany the printer so you can cut the postcards? Do you have an employee that will be able to figure out how to make the front and back line up? What software are you using for the variable data? InDesign can't do it 2-sided. Do you have PrintShopMail or are you ready to spend another $3000 for that? Are you going to run enough color clicks while you're running these black clicks that you don't run into developer issues? Do you even know what that means? Are you going to have a maintenance contract or no? If so, how much would you be willing to pay for a click? Will Xrx even put it on a maintenance contract since you didn't buy it from them? Are they going to require a tech to check it out (at $375 for the first 15 minutes) and give it an OK before they put it on a maintenance contract?

And this is just the beginning.

$0.40 is a lot for your volume, but I suggest finding another vendor. I'll do um for a fraction of that price if you're in the US.

 

[Dottiek]

Not knowing those specific machines, be aware that just because they *say* they can handle the paper, doesn't mean they can do it efficiently. If that weight only works through the bypass tray and the bypass tray only holds 100 sheets, you could be babysitting it all day.
If you are definitely going this route, it may pay you to rework your postcard size to a different standard that fits the particular paper that you know is going to work size and weight in your chosen machine. Then you can deal with the variable data applications
Also, stay far under the listed ratings for monthly output when buying. They are optimum and often based on 20# letter paper one sided. It won't make you happy to put 50K through in December and find out that January through March you are replacing all sorts of parts in a machine rated for 50K /month.

 

[LoganBlade]

last i heard a post card must me 9pts and the 242 can not duplex that weight

 

[onwsk8r]

Dottiek, it does only work through bypass or OHCF.
No a 242 cannot duplex anything heavier than 176gsm which certainly won't be 9pt

 

[Muddy]

It is pretty hard for you to come in here and ask our advice and that advice will ultimately take work away from our print brothers.

The only piece of advice I can give is that there is a WHOLE lot more to print than buying a printer and pushing a button and telling it to print 1000 postcards.

 

[JewelryDesignConcepts]

I have found a triumph guillotine on craigslist locally for $500, practically brand new. Also I plan on getting a paper jogger for around $50 via ebay.
I had planned to use InDesign for the layout. This 242 comes with external Fiery EX260 with Impose, Graphic Arts Premium Package.
My background is in programming (EDI, sql reports, php/perl). Although I have little knowledge of using InDesign and the Fiery package I assume it will be worth it in the long run to train myself on these.

391k total impressions on the Xerox 242 I'm interested in.

 

[JewelryDesignConcepts]

It is pretty hard for you to come in here and ask our advice and that advice will ultimately take work away from our print brothers.

The only piece of advice I can give is that there is a WHOLE lot more to print than buying a printer and pushing a button and telling it to print 1000 postcards.

I understand this and I feel I am being raped by local print shops by the quote's I'm getting which is why I would rather learn to do this myself. There is also a level of confidentiality that I want with my postcard direct mail printing which pushes me to want to do the printing in house. I am prepared to learn what is needed to make printing part of our company.

 

[JustinB]

Does the $0.40 include postage?

If yes, the $.40 may be a little high, but not horrendous. If you're saturating an area (every address on a postal route) then the postage could be as low as about $.19 each. If you're just kind of sending them a little here and a little there, it could be about $.25 each.

If that's the case, then $.15 for each postcard + $.25 each for postage is reasonable.

Have you ever prepared a bulk mailing, generated the bar codes and gotten the post office to accept the mailing? Talk about a mine field....

If $16,000 a month (40k cards x $.40 each) was the going rate for printing variable data 5" x 4" postcards, then yes, you should do it in house. HOWEVER, that price is very high. I'm not interested in your business, but we charge around $.11 each for the same service.

 

[JewelryDesignConcepts]

Does the $0.40 include postage?

If yes, the $.40 may be a little high, but not horrendous. If you're saturating an area (every address on a postal route) then the postage could be as low as about $.19 each. If you're just kind of sending them a little here and a little there, it could be about $.25 each.

If that's the case, then $.15 for each postcard + $.25 each for postage is reasonable.

Have you ever prepared a bulk mailing, generated the bar codes and gotten the post office to accept the mailing? Talk about a mine field....

If $16,000 a month (40k cards x $.40 each) was the going rate for printing variable data 5" x 4" postcards, then yes, you should do it in house. HOWEVER, that price is very high. I'm not interested in your business, but we charge around $.11 each for the same service.

The current postcard size in inches is 5.5" wide & 3.75" tall.
.40¢ does include the postage sorting and bulk mail drop, we buy a list of address's and format the address data for the printer and they take it from there.
when you say mine field can you expound on that, we have no idea what we're getting into with the bulk mailing & sorting? Please explain...

We mail out 10k-20k postcards per month and the .40¢ per postcard price is based on that amount per month.

 

[JustinB]

Getting a bulk mail permit is easy. But the mailings themselves are more involved. When you buy the mailing list, you have to generate the intelligent mail barcode which is a combination of information you provide (the mailer) and information from the address list (zip code). Once the information is compiled, it has to be converted into a text string that can be printed as a barcode.

Depending on your mailing, you may or may not need to deliver the postcards in the same sequence that Bob the postal carrier will be walking on his route. So you can't just print a bunch of cards and address them, it all has to be in a certain order.

You need to provide paperwork to the post office showing that the list is up-to-date and doesn't have any bad/old addresses in it. You need to generate barcodes for the trays that the postcards will sit in while they go through the post office system. You also need to generate all the upfront paperwork for submitting your order.

$.40 INCLUDING them handling all the printing and dirty work (bulk mail process) is a good price for what you're getting. It's not super dirt cheap 0 profit margin, but it's not real high either.

 

[biggreydog]

In addition to what Justin said don't expect much help from the post office on this. Many of their employees are just plain dumb. Also are you close to a bulk mail drop facility? The PO has be consolidating them over the past few years.

 

[JewelryDesignConcepts]

In addition to what Justin said don't expect much help from the post office on this. Many of their employees are just plain dumb. Also are you close to a bulk mail drop facility? The PO has be consolidating them over the past few years.

We are 1 mi away from our downtown PO, we have been assigned an account rep who does seem helpful. He mentioned that we should come down to see how a tray is organized and he can recommend the software needed.

 

[kdw75]

We are 1 mi away from our downtown PO, we have been assigned an account rep who does seem helpful. He mentioned that we should come down to see how a tray is organized and he can recommend the software needed.

If you are really committed to doing the whole operation yourself then it sounds like you should consider opening a printing business and really devote your time to it. Doesn't make sense to dabble in something that takes so much time, skill, and experience.

I could do a lot of my car maintenance, but I choose to do what I love, which is printing.

 

[JewelryDesignConcepts]

going into the printing business:
this is exactly what it looks like we will be doing which is why I am asking these questions in this excellent forum with excellent people who are willing to help.

 

[arossetti]

Wait since when is toner not water proof?

Dick Burn - do you want to be a jeweler or a printer? Because the time and resources it is going to take you to get this worked out won't be worth it. Find a new vendor. If you really do want to have a mid-life career change then you are going to need to purchase, learn, a CASS software, a variable data software, a printer, a cutter, and spend you day sorting, rubberbanding, traying, strapping and hauling postcards. There is so much to learn you don't even know what you don't know.