Reconditioned Nexpress or Xerox Color 800

[dmpnyc]

We currently run a Canon Imagepress C6000 and it can no longer keep up with our volume, so we are in the market for another machine. We were loking at the Xerox Color 800/1000, the Konica C8000 (ruled it out though) and the Imagepress 7010VP (not entirely happy with canon service on the c6000). So we where moving toward the Xerox Color 800 when a Kodak sales person came in with an attractive offer for a reconditioned Nexpress 2500. Does anyone have any experience with a reconditioned nexpress? It seems like this would be a lot more machine than the Xerox... Any advice is appreciated...

Thanks,
Darren
Quality Imaging Services, Inc.

 

[TeeBee]

Two things:
- Why are you not happy with the C6000??
- A NexPress 2500 is off course more press than Xerox 800. Accepts more papertypes, paperformat larger, 5th station more possibilities, grow towards NexPress 3000, etc.

 

[Printease]

I just feel the need to counter TeeBee's claim a little.

The Xerox 800's paper format is only slightly smaller than the 2500.
The image quality and consistency on the 800 is superior to the Nexpress.
The 800 has clear dry ink as an option, and it lays it down in a single pass.
(The 800 also has an empty place for a 5th color beyond the clear dry toner- so hopefully Xerox has future plans to utilize this)
The 800 handles solid fields and gradients better than the NexPress.
Both machines are spec'd to run to 350gsm.

Although I work for a Xerox agency, I have hands-on experience operating both of these machines, and in real-world applications I have found the 800 to be the better machine hands down.

You will obviously need to weigh what you desire to accomplish vs. cost to make your decision, but I just wanted to have it stated that the 800/1000 is a great machine and you are sure to see a ton of these being installed in the coming years.

 

[dmpnyc]

TeeBee - Its not that we are not happy with the C6000 - it is because of this machine that we were able to grow a healthy digital color business, so much so that we need a second machine! We do have a few issues with cross feed lines going through some solid colors, but thats a another story.

We started our search by looking at the Xerox Color 800, Canon 7010VP and Konica 8000. We ruled out the Konica, as we were unimpressed with the print quality, the 7010VP basically offers what the C6000 offers (which is fine but does not have the 5th imaging station), and we liked what we saw out of the Color 800. At the same time we did some research and saw the reconditioned Nexpress on Kodaks website, called the rep, and she came in with a very competitive lease price. So we are weighing our options...and yes if we can get the Nexpress that would be our first choice.

Printease - I kind of agree, but belive the Nexpress would be more of a workhorse than the 800. And the fact that the 5th imaging unit can be swaped out for R,G,B, FR, Clear, etc...may allow us to sell more to our clients...

Thanks,
DMPNYC
Quality Imaging Services - Digital Print Experts

 

[TeeBee]

@ Printease: thx for your remarks

So, NexPress 2500 paperformat is larger
So, number of qualified papertypes is larger (offset and digital)
About quality, an end-user won't see the difference.
NexPress has standard a 5th station with much more possibilities than X800; Red/Blue/Green/Clear/Gloss/Spot Color/Spot Gloss/Light Black/Red Fluorecend/MICR/Dimensional

Its a printer X800 vs. a digital press NexPress (with substantial growth potential)

Did I already mention the ORC-concept which give you freedom and not a tie-up clickcontract.

 

[Printease]

I am curious to know what what the differentiators are that make you consider the NexPress a "Digital Press" and the X800 a printer?
As I said, the paper size difference is minimal.
Have you personally used the 800 at all yet?

The end user will notice the difference in quality(I have first-hand experience with both).

 

[TeeBee]

Darren,

Still I'm curious why imagePRESS is from the shortlist. Can you tell?

@ Printease; you win (start thinking customer, boy)

 

[Printease]

No winners here TeeBee, just adding what I know to the discussion so all things can be considered. We all come here to learn, ultimately.

Like now, I am looking forward to see how people respond to your question about the imagePress because I have no experience with this machine.

 

[dmpnyc]

imagePress is on the short list because we are happy with the C6000, and the 7010VP should offer a little more in speed and is now rated for 325gsm. I did demo the X800 at the Xerox showroom using our files and stocks and wasn't impressed with the demo. The machine seemed to really slow down on a few 320 -330 GSM stocks. We are going to demo it again though before we make a final decision...We have not played with the Kodak yet - that is scheduled for this coming week...

-DMPNYC

 

[direxiondm]

Ruled out a Konica?

Ruled out a Konica?

Hi,

iam surprised to hear you ruled out a Konica c8000 on printquality. we have been running an imagepress c7000VP for three years won a Sappi award with and were unable to grow due to stability of the machine. Canon Service has been excellent!!!. If we would only get this back with any other machine wed be happy!

We are currently looking at the same range of machinery. im my opinion the C8000 is a sure contender in imaging quality!!. It surpasses the nexpress 2500 series by a mile!!! The 800 Xerox is a nice babyigen! Its expensive though. It seems to be your looking at two different segments!

Nexpress SE 2500/300 and Xerox 800/100 are in the same segment. Xerox is newer technology so you might be a little better of for the upcoming years using newest tech.

Imagepress 6000 is more of a konica c6500. Canon in my opinion has outpriced itself!! We have been offered a C6010 instead of our problematic c7000VP. This would have been a downgrade!!!!!! The new C7010VP is in the same range as the C8000 konica. Im not sure which one is superioir in imaging quality. i do know he C8000 seems to be stuffed with a few more thought through specs like humidification and straighter paper paths!

Thus far we havent seen a press make nicer prints than our 7000VP but we have been faced with big problems in availlabillity! We just werent able to print this quality most of the time.

So if your looking for a quick workhorse go for the NExpress 2500. If you need more advanced tech i would check out the konica c8000 again. The Xerox 800 ia snother price range that might set you op to the same pricing as a nexpress SX3000.

What where the quality issues you found in the konica!!

Robin

direxiondm

 

[dmpnyc]

Robin -

We were unimpressed with what we saw out of the Konica 8000 during the demo, and are not happy about only duplexing 300GSM, not 350. In the showroom the machine kept jamming and that was with the head service tech present! He kept opening the machine up and poking around, not inspiring much confidence in the service teams troubleshooting skills. I was impressed that it had humdification built in becasue we have humidity issues with the C6000 (I do wonder how many times durng a run you have to replace the water though). The print quality on our sample files and stock was pretty standard, but when we dove in a little and tried to match some client colors it just seemed like the machine was not interpreting what we were doing on the fiery properly. Again, it could just be a really bad demo....

Moving on to the Xerox and the nexPress. The nexPress is actually in play because of the price of the Xerox! We were moving towards the 800 until the Kodak salesperson came back with a lease price that was very similar! We understand the Xerox may offer newer technology, but the Nexpress is a proven workhorse, and that swappable 5th imaging unit could expand our offerings. We have not seen the NexPress print yet, going to see a demo this week.

As for our Canon - its a love-hate relationship. The image quality is superb, and we can manipulate colors to a point where our clients are amazed at what we can match. However, we are finding that it will no longer hold those colors over a longer run (really anything over 2000imps and we start to see noticeable shifts). At that point we start adjusting voltages for the paper stock, or need to stop the run and re-calibarate. We are also having a probem with fine vertical lines going through our solids, that even the field engineer from CUSA cant seem to get rid of....

We are still trying to make a decision, but basically have narrowed it down to the Xerox 800 and the NexPress....any advice still appreciated. What kind of tests do you all think I should put the Nexpress through?

-dmpnyc
Quality Imaing - Digital Printing NYC

 

[LCP]

Nexpress 2500

Nexpress 2500

I have ran a Kodak 2500 for the past year and love it. Because of Kodaks ORC plan i went to Rochester for a week to learn how to clean, maintain, and fix the press. Since i do 90% of the maintenance my self, we have only been down for about 8 days total in the past year.

It seems like the other presses that you are comparing to the NexPress are not in the same category. The Xerox iGen 3 and iGen 4 are more comparable to the NexPress 2500.

One other thing to think about is that amount of inventory you must keep on hand with the Nexpress. Since you do most of the maintnece your self you must keep many parts on the shelf and this takes up lots or room.

 

[JayDA]

Robin -

(I do wonder how many times durng a run you have to replace the water though).

I fill my humidifier tank about every 150,000 clicks, it's on probably 80% of the time.

 

[bertman98]

why did you rule out the konica c8000

 

[kevneto]

We leased a reconditioned Nexpress 2500 about a year ago and love it. We still have 2 Canon 7000's, but they are service intensive and our service guy has a cot here in the shop since he is here so much. Average 5-6 times a week.

Did the training in Rochester on the Nexpress for a week, plus had with onsite training for a week also. We do about 90% of the maintenance which provides for excellent up-time. This machine is a tank and the engineering makes it easy to maintain. The quality on the machine is good, registration is spot on, and color holds pretty goo.

DO NOT go for the Kodak ORC plan if you are running heavy stocks with heavy coverage! You won't make money. Plus working with Kodak accounting under this plan is a nightmare! Go for the straight click plan, negotiate the lowest cost and life will be much easier!

Can't compare it to a 800, but I am well pleased with this machine.

 

[richwitney]

I'd have another look at the KM C8000 - we've looked at Canon 7010VP, Xerox 800, Ricoh 801, and the KM is as good as if not better than all of these.

No problems duplexing 350gsm either ;-)

Don't let a poor Dem put you off!

 

[SLOtisk]

@dmpnyc

What did you chose in the end, Xerox 800 or Nexpress? Let us know how it has turned out? Are you satisfied with the decision, any regrets?