registration problem in avantra 44XT

[respinola]

very good everyone in the forum ..
my name is Rodrigo Jara and I need help with a avantra 44XT..
it has registry problems .. registration problem before problems with the laser, which was replaced by another laser that belonged to a avantra 44s ..
for unknown reasons avantra 44s that stopped working and was sold in parts, unfortunately I could not have the DEC board to recover the parameters of the DSP and Correction table ..
the registration problem is 2 millimeters, I tried to adjust as much as possible but I can not make it right ..
I tried other parameters hoping that one is better but nothing ..
writing from Paraguay where we have many resources to get immediate solutions ..
the serial number of the machine avantra 44XT is 6947 and the machine serial number is 5584 avantra 44s ..
from already thank you very much everyone for the attention

 

[VladCanada]

Please give us more details about registration problem:
in which direction;
do you use a Ganging RIP feature?
We discussed that issue many times in here, use the forum search.
You can not use DEC parameters from S to XT version as well as DEC board to install from S version to XT.
Laser Driver Module is identical for all models, but after LDM replacement you need focus, exposure and PWM calibrations to be performed.

 

[28-yr-AGFA-SE]

As Vlad said, replacement of the Laser Driver Module, or the Spot Generator Module, would require calibrations of the focus, PWM and exposure. These won't effect the registration issue. Need a lot more detail on the registration issue to be able to offer any possible solution. Is it in the fast scan (around the drum) or slow scan (across the drum) direction? Is it an error relative to the position of punch holes or is it relative to to "best fit" from one separation to another. Lots of detail is needed for this type of problem.

 

[Armya Inc]

As Vlad said, replacement of the Laser Driver Module, or the Spot Generator Module, would require calibrations of the focus, PWM and exposure. These won't effect the registration issue. Need a lot more detail on the registration issue to be able to offer any possible solution. Is it in the fast scan (around the drum) or slow scan (across the drum) direction? Is it an error relative to the position of punch holes or is it relative to to "best fit" from one separation to another. Lots of detail is needed for this type of problem.

28-yr-Agfa-SE, You are a real Tech. Are you after solution for this mess? Read what parts he has used. He isn't even sure PWM,Exposure and etc to have any problem.

 

[28-yr-AGFA-SE]

So far he's replaced the laser (LDM or SGM) and the DEC Bd. parameters for the laser weren't transferred with the laser. He also stated that the registration problem dates to before any of these replacements. Focus, exposure and PWM will have an effect on screen quality but have little to no effect (in the range of .001 inch) on a 2 mm registration problem. We really need a lot of detail on the registration issue.

 

[Armya Inc]

So far he's replaced the laser (LDM or SGM) and the DEC Bd. parameters for the laser weren't transferred with the laser. He also stated that the registration problem dates to before any of these replacements. Focus, exposure and PWM will have an effect on screen quality but have little to no effect (in the range of .001 inch) on a 2 mm registration problem. We really need a lot of detail on the registration issue.

And we do not have any detail on the quality of the image and some other issues that might be elaborated in the near future.

 

[STSTech]

Farshad,

You are correct. Respinola has a real mess with this Imagesetter. The simplest solution to his problem is a new carriage assembly. Is the cost worth it? His other option is to get another SGM with parameters, but this may not fix the problem.

Without seeing his output, I can only guess and give opinions what I think may be the problem.
1. Spinner not square on carriage
2. Issue with Dec parameters,( magnification,linearity,slow scan magnification)

This is one problem that can not be fix on this forum, or with just AVDIAG.

STSTech

 

[Armya Inc]

Farshad,

You are correct. Respinola has a real mess with this Imagesetter. The simplest solution to his problem is a new carriage assembly. Is the cost worth it? His other option is to get another SGM with parameters, but this may not fix the problem.

Without seeing his output, I can only guess and give opinions what I think may be the problem.
1. Spinner not square on carriage
2. Issue with Dec parameters,( magnification,linearity,slow scan magnification)

This is one problem that can not be fix on this forum, or with just AVDIAG.

STSTech

I know the cost of a new carriage for Avantra XT is about $35000 and the parts for Avantra XT is harder and more expensive to be found in the market. The easiest and safest way is to buy and replace Xt engine with a used Avantra S Engine, or he has to order Xt parts.

 

[respinola]

hello friends ...
I read every one of your comments and ask a thousand pardons for not giving answers to their questions in advance ..
first: I've replaced the entire laser module, not so the spinner, knowing that the spinner of 30000RPM avantraXT is much faster than the avantraS ..
Second: I have not replaced the motherboard of the laser and structure leave it as is because of the AvantraS spinner is not equal to having my AvantraXT therefore could not change as is the car.
third, the parameters of correction was not possible to recover it, nor any other parameter of the previous AvantraS.
four: Replace the two other carriage encoder in a better position, bearings and ball bearings.
fifth: the image has no problem, just send it to MS in the Xitron Navigator, the image recorded along the drum.
Six: compare a grid of 1x1 cm full drum with another grid plate ctp done and noted that the compared image shrinks 2 mm on the plate along the drum but only towards the end.

 

[respinola]

all apologies for not responding earlier, I had a medical problem, I was in bed for several days and unable to work.
I do not think I do not respect the forum and less to you who are taking their time to serve my case ..
Here are 10 pm in Paraguay, I'm trying to catch up with work ..

 

[VladCanada]

Ok, that's better to be later than never
So, you have a film out of drum surface issue, or drum vacuum problem I guess.

 

[Armya Inc]

Ok, that's better to be later than never
So, you have a film out of drum surface issue, or drum vacuum problem I guess.

And/or Carriage encoder problem or Supply, Take up Servos Calibration problem.

 

[STSTech]

hello friends ...
I read every one of your comments and ask a thousand pardons for not giving answers to their questions in advance ..
first: I've replaced the entire laser module, not so the spinner, knowing that the spinner of 30000RPM avantraXT is much faster than the avantraS ..
Second: I have not replaced the motherboard of the laser and structure leave it as is because of the AvantraS spinner is not equal to having my AvantraXT therefore could not change as is the car.
third, the parameters of correction was not possible to recover it, nor any other parameter of the previous AvantraS.
four: Replace the two other carriage encoder in a better position, bearings and ball bearings.
fifth: the image has no problem, just send it to MS in the Xitron Navigator, the image recorded along the drum.
Six: compare a grid of 1x1 cm full drum with another grid plate ctp done and noted that the compared image shrinks 2 mm on the plate along the drum but only towards the end.

OK, you overlay the film over the top of a plate. Did you start from the beginning of the image, or did you center the film to the plate? You should center the film to the plate, and check to see if you are 1 mm short on both the left and right side.
If the distance is equal, then you have an issue with slow scan maginification.

When checking the image quality of a machine you need to run a job that uses as much of the drum image areaas possible. A good test is to create a job with a grid line centered in both X and Y of the max print area of Avantra. I then draw boxes 4,8,16,20,24 and 30
inches using small rule linesView attachment Grid046.pdf. My last box is 35 1/2 by 40 inches(see example picture attached to this post) I run this job twice and do a flip and turn to compare the two films.( flip and turn =emulsion to emulsion and rotate top film 180 degrees. By running a job like this I can check the following: Magmification,Linerity,Carriage home, squareness and Vacuum issue.



STSTech

 

[respinola]

good to all forum again .. did not respond earlier because the company was closed and could not work with the 44XT avantra .. today I have been working since early watching everything I have asked ..
The grid of 1x1 cm superimposed on the ctp plate results in a slight magnification at the end of the drum in the upper, left side of flaper.
completely disassemble the unit of punch and apparently I found the problem ..
the vias between metal plates through which air is extracted to vacuum were blocked ..
exhaustive procedure to clean the entire unit and apparently the problem is resolved ..
I proceed with the tests proposed by you again and check the result ..
in a first rapid test found no problems with registration, but we will continue to test more time ..

 

[VladCanada]

<<So, you have a film out of drum surface issue, or drum vacuum problem I guess. >>

I've won this quize!

 

[Armya Inc]

I've won this quize!

And Respinola will make a payment to Vlad for his Knowledge and time to work on this project.As he might need his experience in the near future. Right? I suggest Western Union, PAYPAL or Bank Wire Transfer, but it is up to Vlad and Respinola to decide on the method of payment. PAYPAL and Western Union are the best.What do you think Respinola? Fair?

 

[28-yr-AGFA-SE]

If I am understanding correctly, the registration error is not across the film but is around the drum. Run two copies of your 1x1 cm grid and put one on top of the other (with emulsion turned the same on both) and rotate the top one 180 degrees so the lead edge of top is now to trailing edge of bottom. If the center area shows good registration to each other, then the registration error is in a specific area of the drum. That may be caused by film slightly lifting off the drum. This type of registration error will actually be an image dimension error. If none of the grid areas are properly registered, then you probably have a carriage that is misaligned with the center of the drum. and as Armya mentioned earlier, a carriage replacement is the only real cure.