Ricoh 9210 - Shrinkage

[Melluvscats]

We ran book tabs on 13 x 19 12pt C2S and the image shrank up about a 1/16 on both tabs. The tabs were heavy coverage on both sides.
We have seen the shrinkage before, especially on business cards.
Any input would be most appreciated.

 

[SteveSuffRIT]

Can you show a photo?

 

[EdwardB]

1/16th of an inch of shrinkage is only about 0.7% of shrinkage, assuming a 9x11 tab, 2up on 13x19. most engines and RIPs have profiles/calibrations for each stock, you might just need to update your profile.

Also make sure you don't have "print to fit" or "scale to fit" turned on.

updating your stock profile for an additional .7% of magnification is my best guess on a solution.

 

[EdwardB]

**additional note, if you manually correct for the .7% of magnification. You will also need to correct your lead edge and center.

FYI, what I recommend doing is create a test file of 1" grids. Print and measure between the first and last lines, you should have EXACTLY 17" (lengthwise) on a 19" sheet. If you have more than a .1mm difference (I use MM for all my "accurate" calculations), take that difference and divide it by 431.8. That will give you the percentage of magnification length wise, then do the same for your width. 11" between the last lines on your 13" sides. again divide the difference in mm by 279.4 to get your correction.

using the above I've been able to get very accurate dimensional output

 

[namelessentity]

FYI every toner machine has shrinkage/stretch. There should be an adjustment for the stock settings to compensate for it. Ask your salesperson or specialist if you weren't trained on it.

 

[cqb1988]

I had a similar problem. The second side will be smaller if the first side has heavy coverage due to the slipperiness of the paper. adjusting the magnification won't help, as the images get smaller gradually from the leading to the tail, and only happens when coverage is high,

check out the attached troubleshooting guide to see if it helps, did not work for us tho, we ended up upgrading to 9500...

 

[smalloffsetpressexperts]

This may help

 

[Melluvscats]

This may help

LOL - I was thinking about this Seinfeld seen when I posted.

 

[life_in_a_duplex]

I had a similar problem. The second side will be smaller if the first side has heavy coverage due to the slipperiness of the paper. adjusting the magnification won't help, as the images get smaller gradually from the leading to the tail, and only happens when coverage is high,

check out the attached troubleshooting guide to see if it helps, did not work for us tho, we ended up upgrading to 9500...

After getting the 9500, this problem was eliminated? I've experienced this problem since purchasing the 9210 and it's been rough. No solutions from techs and this pdf didn't help us either.

 

[DJenkins]

We also have the 9210 and i deal with this on a daily bases. I adjust Magnification within the paper profile and you have 0.5% adjustment each way. If the adjustment can not be corrected within the 0.5% range then i change the GSM of the paper up or down (usually down) to be able to reach correct measure. Techs have been no help on my end either. As they want to tell me my paper is a custom paper and is to be expected. The settings are all in the advanced settings menu of the paper profile. Best of luck!!

 

[cqb1988]

After getting the 9500, this problem was eliminated? I've experienced this problem since purchasing the 9210 and it's been rough. No solutions from techs and this pdf didn't help us either.

The registration problem is fixed. But I am having issues with the newly developed fuser

 

[LeGerbs]

After getting the 9500, this problem was eliminated? I've experienced this problem since purchasing the 9210 and it's been rough. No solutions from techs and this pdf didn't help us either.

DJenkins is correct essentially what's happening is as your paper is running through the fuser the second time, the toner that's already been melted on side 1 is spreading more on the paper since it's being re-melted. Unfortunately yes this is a known issue with the 9210 series and there isn't a current permanent fix you'll just have to adjust your magnification settings on the paper stocks giving you the problems. A lot of people end up running the auto registration feature after you've adjusted the magnification and that essentially resets it back to 0. My best advice is to leave the paper settings where they are after running the auto registration a single time. If you notice your registration going out of whack a month or so down the road instead of running the auto registration again just manually adjust it.

If you want to save yourself some time if you have a job that has heavy coverage on one side and light coverage on the other make sure the light coverage is being ran before the heavy coverage which prevents it from going through the fusing unit twice. We just purchased a 9500 that's sitting waiting to be set up and supposedly it was fixed in that series so i'll give you an update once it's all set up and running.

 

[narseman]

We ran book tabs on 13 x 19 12pt C2S and the image shrank up about a 1/16 on both tabs. The tabs were heavy coverage on both sides.
We have seen the shrinkage before, especially on business cards.
Any input would be most appreciated.

On the Oce's I ran, usually meant the image transfer belts were due to replace. Or.. just re-calibrate your image magnification.

 

[life_in_a_duplex]

We also have the 9210 and i deal with this on a daily bases. I adjust Magnification within the paper profile and you have 0.5% adjustment each way. If the adjustment can not be corrected within the 0.5% range then i change the GSM of the paper up or down (usually down) to be able to reach correct measure. Techs have been no help on my end either. As they want to tell me my paper is a custom paper and is to be expected. The settings are all in the advanced settings menu of the paper profile. Best of luck!!

Thanks for the tip - I tried this out and unfortunately it didn't change the gradual change in magnification.

I found the only workaround is to print a few thousand sheets scrap prints first (not actually scrap but just prints that are super basic text documents) and then did the real printing once the ricoh has warmed up. Seems to work now but definitely a pain to be printing a bunch of scrap sheets.

 

[life_in_a_duplex]

On the Oce's I ran, usually meant the image transfer belts were due to replace. Or.. just re-calibrate your image magnification.

Yeah the issue is definitely made more extreme right before/after a belt replacement. Re calibrating the image magnification however only works temporarily before the image gradually starts to shrink up to 2mm during the print run. Seems like all c9210 ricoh printers have this issue on heavy weight paper.

I also found that running 11x17 makes the issue less noticeable than 13x19. the length of the 13x19 makes the shrinkage much more pronounced.

 

[LeGerbs]

Figured i'd update you all as promised about the c9500. The registration issue seen on the 9200 series has become a non-issue and registration feels like a quick set it and forget it. We've been using the 9500 for about 2ish months now and it hasn't slipped once. We chose not to import the paper library from our 9200's and made a new one altogether. Registration is a lot simpler due to the fact it only uses 11 total sheets vs the 32 from the 9200's there's also a manual registration option almost identical to older KM series such as the C1100 or the 1070 Biz hub which helps save even more paper although it takes a lot more time.