Ricoh C900
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May I use your company as a referral?
May I use your company as a referral?
Hi mailerdude
My name is Bill Davies and I work for IKON Office Solutions as the Graphics Arts Specialist in Ottawa, Canada. I was delighted to have read your review on the C900 as we are equally as excited about this product.
I was wondering if you could do me a favor and allow me to use you as a referral for other sales opportunities that I am currently working on for this product.
Thank you,
Bill Davies
613-913-6081
[email protected]
May I use your company as a referral?
Hi mailerdude
My name is Bill Davies and I work for IKON Office Solutions as the Graphics Arts Specialist in Ottawa, Canada. I was delighted to have read your review on the C900 as we are equally as excited about this product.
I was wondering if you could do me a favor and allow me to use you as a referral for other sales opportunities that I am currently working on for this product.
Thank you,
Bill Davies
613-913-6081
[email protected]
C900
C900
Yea, unfortunately, we have been looking at the 900 for some time and are at the point where we don't think Ricoh has the capability to support us. They always say they can do things. The problem is the big disconnect between what they "say" they can do and what they "actually" do. It's such a new product, in a new space, with new options, I just don't think they know which way is up.
So, we go to Xerox.
C900
Yea, unfortunately, we have been looking at the 900 for some time and are at the point where we don't think Ricoh has the capability to support us. They always say they can do things. The problem is the big disconnect between what they "say" they can do and what they "actually" do. It's such a new product, in a new space, with new options, I just don't think they know which way is up.
So, we go to Xerox.
[email protected]
Well-known member
More than that.
More than that.
I believe the number right now is something like 250+ placements US.
More than that.
I believe the number right now is something like 250+ placements US.
Any chance you would share stocks that worked well for you? We have had the C900 for a couple months now, and are still trying to identify decent stocks for heavy coverage and less cracking when folding.
Currently, I am in need of a decent performing uncoated business card stock, and a good glossy that's long grain 9for printing brochures 2 up and tri-folding)
More Koolade
More Koolade
Hey Ensudo,
Sounds like you are a happy Xerox user/ tech. Fantastic. Not sure why you are wasting time on posts like this ...the C900 certainly is no threat to the likes of Xerox certainly.
Xerox is a fine Company, no need to get all huffy. I have enjoyed reading this thread with interest being an IKON rep myself. I have sold Canon's, the Konica Minolta engine and now the Ricoh C900. Even worked at Xerox in the early days, and recieved some fine sales training from the masters.
I am a big fan of the KM 6501 engine ( IKON CPP series) and have many happy customers with that product. But like most of you on this post....when it was first launched 5 years ago I was totally skeptical of this new player going up against the likes of Canon and Xerox.
There had to be guinea pigs back then too, but those that bought them, and trusted their dealers to look after them ( KM & IKON) ...did well, and have made good money with them. So I can empathize with Mr Konica tech and his leanings.
But, the same existed for the first iGEN's and the original 2045's and 2060's for Xerox ....which DID NOT make a lot of money for many of their installs. ...very expensive boxes that were sold into very small volumes... ( under 50K per/ month in my area...knocking out Doc 12's) ..preaching "Digital Press" capabilities..."buy one and the volume will come".....and it never did , because they launched the DC 240 and 250 's about 2 years later with lower cost per copy and better quality.....at about 33% of the capital cost.
Those same 2045's and 2060's are todays rebuilt 7000 and 8000's...blows me away there is so much loyalty to these engines at the price point they are charging, and the quality , and consistency you get. ....but alas Xerox is a great brand name, and they will always give you another of the same regurgitated, problematic engine if you keep sending them payments. Or upgrade you to the "latest" version which solves the bad registration, paper curling, etc...inherent in the previous edition of the same engine
Sorry...I have been guilty of this last sequence as well ....we sales people do sell bad products at times, not intentionally, as we get fed the kool aid as referenced earlier....so that is why I am looking at this thread, as I want to hear about the C900 too, and hopefully hear great stories. As a rep in the industry for 19 years, I don't want to sell my customers crappy machines, because I want to sell them another one in 3-5 years.....I am in a more rural area which does not have many major print shops....so the C900 at $125-175K
or so ( see local dealer for details....
) is rich for a shop running under 50K/ month.
Also want to add....the automatic Ring Binder option for shops doing a lot of coil bound book publishing REALLY is a time saver in the bindery....fully automated, cover insertion, and in line punching and coil binding ( GBC Click bind actually) with virtually no loss in productivity on the engine....gotta see it in action ...I am sure they will all offer it in time....if you are stuck on one brand or another.
Appreciate all your comments....Xeroids/ Monika's and the like....keep an eye on Ricoh though, they seem to have their sights set on being a player in P4P, and are spending good$$ to build a strong infrastructure ...including buying IKON
More Koolade
whoa. Truly monumental
Hey Ensudo,
Sounds like you are a happy Xerox user/ tech. Fantastic. Not sure why you are wasting time on posts like this ...the C900 certainly is no threat to the likes of Xerox certainly.
Xerox is a fine Company, no need to get all huffy. I have enjoyed reading this thread with interest being an IKON rep myself. I have sold Canon's, the Konica Minolta engine and now the Ricoh C900. Even worked at Xerox in the early days, and recieved some fine sales training from the masters.
I am a big fan of the KM 6501 engine ( IKON CPP series) and have many happy customers with that product. But like most of you on this post....when it was first launched 5 years ago I was totally skeptical of this new player going up against the likes of Canon and Xerox.
There had to be guinea pigs back then too, but those that bought them, and trusted their dealers to look after them ( KM & IKON) ...did well, and have made good money with them. So I can empathize with Mr Konica tech and his leanings.
But, the same existed for the first iGEN's and the original 2045's and 2060's for Xerox ....which DID NOT make a lot of money for many of their installs. ...very expensive boxes that were sold into very small volumes... ( under 50K per/ month in my area...knocking out Doc 12's) ..preaching "Digital Press" capabilities..."buy one and the volume will come".....and it never did , because they launched the DC 240 and 250 's about 2 years later with lower cost per copy and better quality.....at about 33% of the capital cost.
Those same 2045's and 2060's are todays rebuilt 7000 and 8000's...blows me away there is so much loyalty to these engines at the price point they are charging, and the quality , and consistency you get. ....but alas Xerox is a great brand name, and they will always give you another of the same regurgitated, problematic engine if you keep sending them payments. Or upgrade you to the "latest" version which solves the bad registration, paper curling, etc...inherent in the previous edition of the same engine
Sorry...I have been guilty of this last sequence as well ....we sales people do sell bad products at times, not intentionally, as we get fed the kool aid as referenced earlier....so that is why I am looking at this thread, as I want to hear about the C900 too, and hopefully hear great stories. As a rep in the industry for 19 years, I don't want to sell my customers crappy machines, because I want to sell them another one in 3-5 years.....I am in a more rural area which does not have many major print shops....so the C900 at $125-175K
or so ( see local dealer for details....
) is rich for a shop running under 50K/ month.Also want to add....the automatic Ring Binder option for shops doing a lot of coil bound book publishing REALLY is a time saver in the bindery....fully automated, cover insertion, and in line punching and coil binding ( GBC Click bind actually) with virtually no loss in productivity on the engine....gotta see it in action ...I am sure they will all offer it in time....if you are stuck on one brand or another.
Appreciate all your comments....Xeroids/ Monika's and the like....keep an eye on Ricoh though, they seem to have their sights set on being a player in P4P, and are spending good$$ to build a strong infrastructure ...including buying IKON
UberTech
Well-known member
The C6501 is not 5 years old. The c500 is probably 5 years old and the c6500 is not a c500. The c6500 is 2 years old at best and the c6501 about 6 months.
I understand that the 6500 and 6501 are large strides ahead of the 500, but its still based on the 500. To me that "engine" is 5 years old. I don't care if they re-launch it every week with a new name or number. But I agree it is a much better engine today due to a lot of great development and feedback from techs , and being run hard in the field. I know within IKON, our Digital Support Center worked very closely with KM in Japan and Fiery and CREO in its early days to work through various bugs. In my region I outsold the Konica Minolta dealer 45 to 2 with the 500/6500/6501 engine....so I like to think IKON really put that engine on the map....those number may be different depending on marketplaces, but KM sticks to the office market in this jurisdiction.
So as the C900 is now in its early days, like the 500 was, I am quite optimisitic that IKON/ Ricoh can build up a good reference base, work through any issues, and end up with a good robust engine that can run a pile of business cards, or rack cards, or short run books, or variable data pieces, on 10-12pt stocks, with good registration and a decent level of color consistency....so that our customers can make good money running 100,000 to 150,000 sheets a month
Our challenge today is to convince the Xerox 700/ 7000/ 8000 buyers to try a Ricoh.....whats a 7000/ 8000 selling for today with a CREO up front? what's the click charge?
How much of a discount does IKON/ Ricoh need to offer to balance the percieved risk, and build up a reference base? How many fed up Xerox customers are there that paid $250+K for an 8000 on the promise of "press quality and consistency page to page and job to job"...that just might jump at the chance to try a new supplier at half the money....Or the competitor down the road from the 8000 owner, that Xerox sold the newly launched 7000 to 6 months later for only $175K ......??
Will watch this site, and see what the field has to say about the C900 as the base of installs builds....
[email protected]
Well-known member
C900 comments
C900 comments
The install number is closer to 150+ by Ricoh, and more than that many by Ikon. Tough to address the 700 service issue w/o knowing more, but in any service org there are going to be gaps from time to time. The C900 Ricoh service reps are all for the most part dedicated to that model and the average response time nationwide currently is less than 2hrs.
C900 comments
The install number is closer to 150+ by Ricoh, and more than that many by Ikon. Tough to address the 700 service issue w/o knowing more, but in any service org there are going to be gaps from time to time. The C900 Ricoh service reps are all for the most part dedicated to that model and the average response time nationwide currently is less than 2hrs.
ShortRunMagazines
Well-known member
Owners?
Owners?
Other than the guy who allegedly did 1,000,000 copies between service calls (if you're going to "fudge the truth", at least make the number believable), does anyone actually own one of these boxes? Are they decent? Ikon want's to put on in my shop to replace 3 C500's...
Thanks!
Jerod.
Owners?
Other than the guy who allegedly did 1,000,000 copies between service calls (if you're going to "fudge the truth", at least make the number believable), does anyone actually own one of these boxes? Are they decent? Ikon want's to put on in my shop to replace 3 C500's...
Thanks!
Jerod.
Hi Jerod -
I don't own the C900, but the company I work for does
So far there's been some learning curve - see my post in a similar thread. Overall, we're very happy with the C900. I am amazed at the color match - we recently printed some PDFs from a game company highlighting a new game coming out - quick print work, no tweaks or color matching, just hit print. When the game came out, colors were exact from their press to our C900 print outs.
Most of our troubles have to do with finding decent stocks and setting combos - our current issue is finding something for letterhead that can then be lasered on a different printer without smearing all over the rollers and stock. We didn't have that issue with our old Konika CPP 500. (glad we kept it for back up)
Also - it jams more than I'd like - always says to fan the paper more. This could be more learning curve, as it seems to be better than originally but still happens more than I'd like.
It does run heavy stock without loss of engine speed, provided it doesn't jam. We have run 12 point C1S without issues (although not duplexed).
Let me know if you want specific info, or a file printed, etc. Would be glad to help.
Rhonda
I don't own the C900, but the company I work for does
So far there's been some learning curve - see my post in a similar thread. Overall, we're very happy with the C900. I am amazed at the color match - we recently printed some PDFs from a game company highlighting a new game coming out - quick print work, no tweaks or color matching, just hit print. When the game came out, colors were exact from their press to our C900 print outs.
Most of our troubles have to do with finding decent stocks and setting combos - our current issue is finding something for letterhead that can then be lasered on a different printer without smearing all over the rollers and stock. We didn't have that issue with our old Konika CPP 500. (glad we kept it for back up)
Also - it jams more than I'd like - always says to fan the paper more. This could be more learning curve, as it seems to be better than originally but still happens more than I'd like.
It does run heavy stock without loss of engine speed, provided it doesn't jam. We have run 12 point C1S without issues (although not duplexed).
Let me know if you want specific info, or a file printed, etc. Would be glad to help.
Rhonda
Good to hear the color quality is there....keep on them to fix the jamming, the techs can look at jam codes in their software to see where the jams are occurring , and dig into that area for resolution.....I am sure the sales rep ( if he is smart) will want to address those issues asap so you can be used for a reference, which is the only way some of the folks on this thread are going to consider buying one. You have lots of power ...use it!
Unfortunately the C900 uses fuser oil, so in cases where you are trying to do letterhead or envelopes, that will be re-run through a laserprinter, does not sound like the C900 will work....therefore hang onto that older CPP 500 for those applications....
Aging IKON Color Sales Guy
Unfortunately the C900 uses fuser oil, so in cases where you are trying to do letterhead or envelopes, that will be re-run through a laserprinter, does not sound like the C900 will work....therefore hang onto that older CPP 500 for those applications....
Aging IKON Color Sales Guy
[email protected]
Well-known member
toner offset resolution
toner offset resolution
I ran into this exact same issue at a customer site yesterday. He was running covers with large dark burghandy colored logo (you could feel the raised ink on top of the stock) and some other text on the C900 and running them through a Ricoh MP1356 as covers from a pre-fuser paper tray. We found that the color toner was melting and offsetting onto the next half a dozen b&w pages. We resolved it the following way;
1. In Fiery Properties, under Image, we checked Toner Reduction.
2. Set the C900 paper tray setting to a higher temperature to better fuse the toner. In his case I set his 60# Cover to Special1/Thick2.
Problem solved.
toner offset resolution
Hi Jerod -
I don't own the C900, but the company I work for does
So far there's been some learning curve - see my post in a similar thread. Overall, we're very happy with the C900. I am amazed at the color match - we recently printed some PDFs from a game company highlighting a new game coming out - quick print work, no tweaks or color matching, just hit print. When the game came out, colors were exact from their press to our C900 print outs.
Most of our troubles have to do with finding decent stocks and setting combos - our current issue is finding something for letterhead that can then be lasered on a different printer without smearing all over the rollers and stock. We didn't have that issue with our old Konika CPP 500. (glad we kept it for back up)
Also - it jams more than I'd like - always says to fan the paper more. This could be more learning curve, as it seems to be better than originally but still happens more than I'd like.
It does run heavy stock without loss of engine speed, provided it doesn't jam. We have run 12 point C1S without issues (although not duplexed).
Let me know if you want specific info, or a file printed, etc. Would be glad to help.
Rhonda
I ran into this exact same issue at a customer site yesterday. He was running covers with large dark burghandy colored logo (you could feel the raised ink on top of the stock) and some other text on the C900 and running them through a Ricoh MP1356 as covers from a pre-fuser paper tray. We found that the color toner was melting and offsetting onto the next half a dozen b&w pages. We resolved it the following way;
1. In Fiery Properties, under Image, we checked Toner Reduction.
2. Set the C900 paper tray setting to a higher temperature to better fuse the toner. In his case I set his 60# Cover to Special1/Thick2.
Problem solved.
C900 Jamming
C900 Jamming
Hi Rhonda,
We leased a first generation C900 and experienced a great deal of jamming which the IKON and Ricoh service techs were unable to fix. We were able to get a new mainframe from Ricoh and the second generation machine seems to have solved teh jamming issue.
Regards,
ssga-cm
C900 Jamming
Hi Jerod -
I don't own the C900, but the company I work for does
So far there's been some learning curve - see my post in a similar thread. Overall, we're very happy with the C900. I am amazed at the color match - we recently printed some PDFs from a game company highlighting a new game coming out - quick print work, no tweaks or color matching, just hit print. When the game came out, colors were exact from their press to our C900 print outs.
Most of our troubles have to do with finding decent stocks and setting combos - our current issue is finding something for letterhead that can then be lasered on a different printer without smearing all over the rollers and stock. We didn't have that issue with our old Konika CPP 500. (glad we kept it for back up)
Also - it jams more than I'd like - always says to fan the paper more. This could be more learning curve, as it seems to be better than originally but still happens more than I'd like.
It does run heavy stock without loss of engine speed, provided it doesn't jam. We have run 12 point C1S without issues (although not duplexed).
Let me know if you want specific info, or a file printed, etc. Would be glad to help.
Rhonda
Hi Rhonda,
We leased a first generation C900 and experienced a great deal of jamming which the IKON and Ricoh service techs were unable to fix. We were able to get a new mainframe from Ricoh and the second generation machine seems to have solved teh jamming issue.
Regards,
ssga-cm
fourpaula
Member
C900 in use
C900 in use
I have VERY mixed feeling about that machine. I currently am running the C900 & CPP 650. The C900 machine is faster & skin color is better, but currently that is as far as the pros go. Cons, it will not duplex anything over 9pt paper stock. We duplex variable data on postcard stock of 10pt & 12pt meaning we can't use the machine for that, unless we run 1 side then turn it & run the other. The list of "recommended papers seem to be more of the higher end papers so be prepared for additional cost. There were SEVERAL updates the machine required, both software & hardware, before it could actually be used. I have been told the machine will be able to duplex 10pt & 12pt with another equipment update, but the paper settings information I was given are contradictory. I have used it for a month & have had 5 or 6 service calls. Will try to keep you updated on the out come.
C900 in use
I have VERY mixed feeling about that machine. I currently am running the C900 & CPP 650. The C900 machine is faster & skin color is better, but currently that is as far as the pros go. Cons, it will not duplex anything over 9pt paper stock. We duplex variable data on postcard stock of 10pt & 12pt meaning we can't use the machine for that, unless we run 1 side then turn it & run the other. The list of "recommended papers seem to be more of the higher end papers so be prepared for additional cost. There were SEVERAL updates the machine required, both software & hardware, before it could actually be used. I have been told the machine will be able to duplex 10pt & 12pt with another equipment update, but the paper settings information I was given are contradictory. I have used it for a month & have had 5 or 6 service calls. Will try to keep you updated on the out come.
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