Sappi paper problems

[damon]

Damon,

You are still talking rubbish - you can't even get the name of the chemical correct !

In paper making the coating consists of Precipitated Calcium Carbonate - NOT Calcium chloride


Regards, Alois

you must be a mill rep since you are defending (as you would say rubbish paper). Whatever happened to the fiber in the sheet. Using it for toilet paper. Amazing we pay more for the crap you produce. Save us all alot of grief- Get Gone Alonzo.

 

[damon]

Alonzo (Alois) - Are you a mill rep or a lib or both???????????? Everyone is complaining about the suck a>> paper and you are defending it. Whats up with that? Keep putting more companies out of business by rasing the price and taking out the fiber. Shame on you.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

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Damon,

mmmmmm from your reply - I ascertain you know very little about Lithography.

I repeat go and learn the - Fundamentals of Papermaking or is that a difficult task for you ?



Regards, Alois

 

[damon]

Damon, despite your rude comment, Alois is correct.

best, gordo

Back off Gordo- I am not rude i write it like it is..... A spade is a spade _ you support the problem then you are the problem! People like you sit behind a desk and dont print like us working stiffs. We produce and manufacture a product. and the way paper is being made, it is getting tougher and tougher not like back in the day when the Mills put "FIBER" in the process. Is that the correct way to say it Alois_ FIBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[damon]

What college do you recommend?? I went to the college of hard knocks- don't push it.

 

[gordo]

Back off Gordo- I am not rude i write it like it is..... A spade is a spade _ you support the problem then you are the problem! People like you sit behind a desk and dont print like us working stiffs. We produce and manufacture a product. and the way paper is being made, it is getting tougher and tougher not like back in the day when the Mills put "FIBER" in the process. Is that the correct way to say it Alois_ FIBER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What college do you recommend?? I went to the college of hard knocks- don't push it.

There is an old saying that when your point you finger at someone - three of your fingers are pointing back at you.

You obviously don't know the man behind the Alois moniker. I do. You can learn from him.
People like me? You obviously don't know anything about me.

You might try Googling to get the info you need. Maybe start here: http://www.na.sappi.com/sustainability/planet/recycled-fiber

gordo

 

[Hman56]

you guys should try running 15 & 18pt folding carton board, they have been taking out fiber for years..........so now it's like printing on make-belive board, you know.....you think it's real but it's not.

 

[damon]

Ask Gordo and his boy Aloius, They seem to know everything about printing and we are just dumb dumbs.
Hey Gordo what do you do for a living?

 

[gordo]

Ask Gordo and his boy Aloius, They seem to know everything about printing and we are just dumb dumbs.
Hey Gordo what do you do for a living?

I guess you didn't follow the link I provided.
I certainly never said that I know everything about printing. I do try to know what I know and what I don't. That's difficult enough.
What do I do for a living? I don't know what you mean. You can look at my bio here if you like: http://the-print-guide.blogspot.ca/ but that's rather meaningless.

best, gordo

 

[RGPW17100]

We have been using Flo for years. At a time it was an awesome #3 coated sheet. Even folding 100 lb text cross grain left little cracking and hickey problems on press were minimal. Not anymore. I do not know what changed but it is acting more like some of the plastic feeling asian sheets we used to get. There are times even with a score the sheet cracks. Offset sheets like husky and cougar have so much calcium in it that our blanket washers can not remove it in the black (first printing unit). These issues seem to have just started in the last couple of years. Carolina used to be a good board stock but now we notice a lot more picking from the coating separating from the sheet. I dont know if these are fiber issues or what but paper is not as good as it used to be. I am sure between going green and mills having to compete with others is causing this. While on the subject I feel ink is the same way. Used to be hitting a PMS color was not a problem now all reflex blue jobs are a crap shoot on how it will dry and if each time we order it will it be the same mix as the last time? We are forced to buy low price items such as ink, blankets and paper that it has become a real challenge to produce a nice finished piece. The day of printing on Centura are gone. Cant remember the last time we used that stock or even if they still make it. That stock would not only print nice it finished real nice as well

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

If my math is correct Alois will be 241 years old in November, but I must say, even at his age I have never witnessed him posting any bad information. Gordo, I can only assume is not near Alois' age, but what he lacks in years, he makes up for in knowledge! I have never seen any bad information from Gordo either. I agree paper is not what it has been in the past quality-wise, but it is what it is, and you find ways to make it work. Print on boys!
Best regards,
Todd

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Mmmmmmmmm !

Mmmmmmmmm !

Damon,

Mmmm - it would appear that someone as rattled your cage!

My Credentials: just a relic from the Stone Age.


Damon, remember -

"From knowledge to competence is a great step - from ignorance to competence an even greater one"


Regards, Alois

 

[Kaoticor]

Alright, the tech rep came in this morning and looked at our issues and the preliminary determination is bad paper. We are submitting sheets for detail analysis, but it's pretty obvious.

I must say, this guy was very helpful and did not shy aware from the problem. I am pleasantly surprised at the Sappi response so far. They seem to want the issue resolved as much as we do.

That being said, we learned that McCoy is intentionally made to have more surface texture than some other papers. It is designed to have a "tactical" feel and workability in the bindery as far as cracking on folds etc. Also this sheet is single coated in the manufacturing process vs. HannoArt which is triple coated. A triple coated sheet will always print smoother but is susceptible to cracking in the bindery due to the surface hardness.

We know McCoy has been better in the past and we just need a consistent printing surface on McCoy and we'll be fine. They are working on it and I will keep you all posted when I hear something.

In the mean time if anyone else sees this issue, please post it.

I like the approach you took. Paper making is cutting costs at every opportunity, but if you are well documented and have good paper defect reporting instituted like it seems you are, you should rarely have a problem getting compensation.

In the past we would just drop a paper supplier if the quality started getting bad. With today's market, there just isn't that many companies to choose from though that can provide us with what we need. So I think we need feedback like you asked for in your original post since (at least for us in our print shop) it is often much more practical to at least try to work with your primary suppliers.

 

[damon]

sorry to hear that. Quality is a thing of the past. This is just the beginning of quality "DOWNSIZED". Just asked Gordo (he's a mill rep) or sounds like one. He supports the problem so he is part of the problem.

 

[damon]

Come up with your own sayings Alouis, not from someone else. No one has rattled my cage. Ego is a form of stupidity.

 

[gordo]

sorry to hear that. Quality is a thing of the past. This is just the beginning of quality "DOWNSIZED". Just asked Gordo (he's a mill rep) or sounds like one. He supports the problem so he is part of the problem.

You don't appear to have thought very much about the meaning of "quality" as far as printing is concerned.
And you think I'm a mill rep?
Well, my profile is public. You can go here and read it if you want: The Print Guide
I can't argue you out of any position that I haven't argued you into. Alois has tried to correct your misinformation. Whether you learn from it or not is your choice.

gordo

 

[Joe Duffy]

Come up with your own sayings Alouis, not from someone else. No one has rattled my cage. Ego is a form of stupidity.

...and ignorance is bliss.
The two men you seem to have targeted are some of the most respected members of this forum.
Have an opinion and express it, but when errors are pointed out to you it would be wise to review, reflect and accept.

I learn more when I am wrong, but I admit when I am wrong. We all print on the same papers, some of us have learned how to print well on them.

 

[otherthoughts]

Just asked Gordo (he's a mill rep) or sounds like one. He supports the problem so he is part of the problem.