shingling, creeping

[smchargue]

how do i determine the shingling in preps, I know how to use it, but how do i determine how much creep to use?

 

[Joe]

Re: shingling, creeping

We usually cut down some of the paper stock to be used and fold it down and then measure it.

If you know the width of the paper in thousandths of an inch you can figure it by taking the total number of pages and dividing that by four. Multiply that result by the thickness of the paper. For example if your paper is .003" thick and your boo is 200 pages it would be 200 / 4 = 50 * .003 = .15"

 

[Joe]

Re: shingling, creeping

Here is a spine calculator you can download and use. FREE! (Mac only)

http://home.comcast.net/~jeff.ulicny/software/apps/SpineCalculator.zip

 

[smchargue]

Re: shingling, creeping

Joe, Do you know if there is a version for the Mac competitor, the PC?

 

[Joe]

Re: shingling, creeping

I haven't found it if there is.

 

[minch]

Re: shingling, creeping

Hello Steve,
If you are the Graphic Designer then ask your printer, but if you are the printer there is no substitute for making a dummy i.e. take the required number of sheets and put them through your (or your finisher's) folder, but switch off the trim! When you measure from the outside edge of the first page to the outside edge of the inside page this is your creep (shingle) measurement you enter into your software.

I have come unstuck in the past using a creep generator as it does not take into account the tolerences in paper manufacture and what the folder does - some folders are neater than others and some drift more than others.
Regards minch.

 

[smchargue]

Re: shingling, creeping

Minch,

Our Design Services Department use to provide the creep for newsletters, but switched from quark to indesign and never let me know that they don't provide the creep anymore, So on the last newsletter I built the inside pages were almost cut off.
I'll give your suggestion a try, and thank you for your help in this matter.

Steve

 

[tcollins]

Re: shingling, creeping

Hi Steve
Here is the PC equavilant that we use, it is a creep calculator set up in Excel with the calculations for the total creep measurement that you put into preps as well as the page increments in millimetres.

Hope this helps
TC

Edited by: Tony Collins on Jun 10, 2008 7:09 PM

 

[margadri]

Re: shingling, creeping

I am interested in this Excel calculator, but I can't find the link on your reply.
Could you re-send it?
Thank you in advance

Edited by: Adriano on Jun 11, 2008 5:24 AM

 

[kart97]

Re: shingling, creeping

As an FYI for anyone using the Spine Calculator... the numbers it generates are not the right numbers for creep.
It generates a calculation that is the thickness of the books spine... not the creep amount that would be 1/2 of the amount this utility generates.
An example of the difference follows:
Using the spine calculator... choose 40# White offset and opaque
It generates a thickness of 0.0025
if you enter 200 pages it generates a spine width of .25. This is the actual thickness of the book.

Using the proper calculation
200 Pages / 4 = 50
50 * .0025 = .125. This is the actual creep

If you use the calculator... cut his number in half

John

 

[kart97]

Re: shingling, creeping

Since I couldn't find a decent Shingling Calculator... I created my own.

If anyone wants it... go to:

www.montesi-consulting.com/downloads.htm

It is version 1.0.0. So if anyone has any suggestions for improvement... let me know.
Currently, it is only for the PC... If I get a chance in the future I will create a Mac based utility that does the same thing.

Enjoy
John

 

[margadri]

Re: shingling, creeping

Thank you kart97
Really appreciated

 

[kart97]

Re: shingling, creeping

I posted a Mac utility for Shingling last night.

http://www.montesi-consulting.com/downloads.htm

Enjoy

John

 

[Joe]

Re: shingling, creeping

Thanks for that. Is there a way to add my own paper sizes in addition to the ones you have in there? I know I can enter a custom value but it would be nice to be able to add the paper we use regularly into the menu of selections.

 

[kart97]

Re: shingling, creeping

As for permanently adding your own sizes... Not yet... Possibly a version 2.
I threw both of them together yesterday afternoon and evening.
I just happened to have a day off to do it.
Depending upon how many different stocks you use... I can easily add them if you send them to me.
Just drop me a line through the website.
John

 

[tstodola]

Re: shingling, creeping

In your formula (pages/4)-1)*thickness, don't you have to make this calculation for each signature? on a 96 page book you would need to make the calculation 5 times, excluding the outer signature. I think the formula is great, but it only accounts for final page count.

 

[kart97]

Re: shingling, creeping

It's true that it only calculates the total creep for what in theory are the center pages.

If you have a program such as Metrix you will find it automatically applies the amount given to the center 4 pages and it incrementally uses smaller amounts as it moves towards the other side of the book.

If you use Preps... you can apply the amount given or split it between inner and outer spreads.

For now it is a simple start... that I threw together in a couple of hours...

I am currently planning a version 2 which will allow you to enter your own paper stocks... which it will keep in the list
Possibly... I will be able to have it spit out a list of what each of the spreads should ultimately be moved.
Bear in mind... I'm not a programmer... so I apoligize that it isn't happening as fast as I would like.

John

 

[kart97]

Re: shingling, creeping

Hi Joe,
I just posted a version 1.5 of Shingler. It is half way to what you want.
It now creates a file called Shingler.plist if the User>Library>Preferences folder
If you edit this file with a text editor you can add your own papers and sizes...
The format is a line for the name... and then a line for the size...
If for some reason you corrupt the file... just delete the plist file and it will be recreated at launch time with the default paper thicknesses again.
This is only for the mac version at this time... more people were downloading it than the PC version.
Eventually, I will have both versions with equal features.

http://www.montesi-consulting.com/downloads.htm

John

 

[Joe]

Re: shingling, creeping

John,

Thank you. That is much appreciated.

Joe

 

[kart97]

Re: shingling, creeping

Hi Joe,
Version 2 of Shingler is now out for the Mac... It has the ability to add custom paper sizes into the database as you requested.
You can either download it through a link at version tracker or through

http://www.montesi-consulting.com/downloads.htm

Enjoy