So... I knew I was going to regret it!

[gazfocus]

Does anyone here have a Xerox and actually like it?

I posted a while back about the conundrum of whether to sell my KM C3070 or my Xerox Versant 80, and in the end, the higher resale value on the KM and the fact my Xerox had the booklet finisher and square fold trimmer swung it for me and so I sold my KM and kept the Xerox.

Boy, was that a mistake! Since agreeing the sake of my KM, the Xerox has developed the following issues:
1. Keeps power cycling - wondering whether it's actually a fiery issue because when it does eventually power on, it seems to go into sleep mode as soon as the fiery boots.
2. Faded print along the length of the sheet on one edge - dealer thinks it's the slip sheet but been waiting for them to send a new one out for a week.
3. Machine is now creasing every sheet it prints so can't use the darn thing at all. Just as it started to do this it gave an error code that suggested there was an issue with the fuser temperature.
4. On the engineers last visit, he said there was a slight tear in the fuser belt but STILL waiting for the dealer to send out a new belt as well and that was 4 weeks ago - that could be contributing to (or causing) the issue above.

i'm sure there was a number 5 as well but I'm just feeling really stupid now for selling my KM.

 

[Stickman42]

Does anyone here have a Xerox and actually like it?

Yes. I've got 2 Nuveras, an Iridesse and an off-contract Versant 80 (Xerox end-of-lifed it on me recently). the Nuveras keep chugging along, the Iridesse was a huge step up from the V80, and the remaining V80 has served us well for 7 years (even with a TON of service calls and supply interruptions). All of these had problems, but they get repaired and go back to producing. We are with Xerox direct, and have known the techs for decades. They are the ones that keep the machines going, whether it be maintenance or break fixes.

I can understand your frustration. However, the issues you mention all seem to be simple enough to resolve with enough knowledge and parts support. It seems your dealer is not taking care of the problems at the speed you'd like for them to. But also bear in mind that the V80 is approaching the sunset of its run...

 

[namelessentity]

We're with Canon and it's not much different at times. Toner machines have a lot of points of failure, and sometimes when it rains it pours.

I recently had a primary fuser rebuilt, then our ITB had defects so it was replaced, and now I need another primary fuser roller because something dinged it and now I have a mark on every other sheet. This was all this week, so I feel your frustration.

 

[kslight]

4 weeks? I’d be not paying the bill at that point, that tends to get the right folk’s attention.

I agree that it’s probably time to look past your V80 regardless. Maybe get some competition’s sales people in there. I’m surprised your dealer isn’t trying to upgrade you out of it.

 

[SoggyWinter]

My experience with Xerox is great right now because their supply chain is stable and I have great techs. This status is a 180 from 2019-2021, and subject to change without notice. I'm considering switching to Fujiflim if they go forward with their customer self-repair program.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

4 weeks? I’d be not paying the bill at that point, that tends to get the right folk’s attention.

You need to also be exercising the Total Satisfaction Guarantee immediately and possibly get an attorney involved. This is a service issue, not a machine issue.

 

[TJPrinter]

I had a similar issue on my 280, first it was the fuser assembly throwing codes. They replaced the fuser assembly and had to replace the pressure roller that is under the fuser unit. The pressure roller was worn on one side and causing the paper to crease. It sounds like you need to dump your service provider though. There is not a shortage on any of those parts and they are available for next day delivery. Shame on them for stringing you out like this. A lot of times they don’t even need to replace the entire fuser unit just the slip sheet, belt and oil the wick.

I agree that Fujifilm is the one to be watching now.

 

[tngcas]

It really depends on whether or not Xerox in your area has a competent team. We had great service at the beginning of our contract with v2100s and it was smooth sailing for 3 years. Then the last year was a complete nightmare. Ended up down for four weeks at one point like you mentioned. They started losing their good techs and the supply department stopped allowing techs to order parts overnight (instead it was 1-2 weeks). If we hadn't already been in the middle of switching to Canon idk what we would have done. It might have killed us as a business. Xerox completely ghosted us for those 4 weeks, with us screaming into the void for parts and supplies.

Having said that I think this is true for every service team. I have a great Canon team in one location and then a less great team in another location.
There's definitely room in the marketplace for excellent service to emerge. It'll be interesting to see how Fujifilm emerges.

 

[SoggyWinter]

It really depends on whether or not Xerox in your area has a competent team. We had great service at the beginning of our contract with v2100s and it was smooth sailing for 3 years. Then the last year was a complete nightmare. Ended up down for four weeks at one point like you mentioned. They started losing their good techs and the supply department stopped allowing techs to order parts overnight (instead it was 1-2 weeks). If we hadn't already been in the middle of switching to Canon idk what we would have done. It might have killed us as a business. Xerox completely ghosted us for those 4 weeks, with us screaming into the void for parts and supplies.

Having said that I think this is true for every service team. I have a great Canon team in one location and then a less great team in another location.
There's definitely room in the marketplace for excellent service to emerge. It'll be interesting to see how Fujifilm emerges.

Not me, but a buddy relayed this for Xerox support and supplies apathy when it was really bad in 2021. Get a supervisor on the phone. Politely ask them their name "because our lawyer asked us to keep track". He was getting burned worse than me and the "L" word was a big help.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

It really depends on whether or not Xerox in your area has a competent team. We had great service at the beginning of our contract with v2100s and it was smooth sailing for 3 years. Then the last year was a complete nightmare. Ended up down for four weeks at one point like you mentioned. They started losing their good techs and the supply department stopped allowing techs to order parts overnight (instead it was 1-2 weeks). If we hadn't already been in the middle of switching to Canon idk what we would have done. It might have killed us as a business. Xerox completely ghosted us for those 4 weeks, with us screaming into the void for parts and supplies.

Having said that I think this is true for every service team. I have a great Canon team in one location and then a less great team in another location.
There's definitely room in the marketplace for excellent service to emerge. It'll be interesting to see how Fujifilm emerges.

Holy shit.

 

[gazfocus]

I 100% agree that it’s a service issue rather than the machine but it’s sometimes hard to look past the issues being with the machine when the issues are piling up because the service guys aren’t doing their job.

I have to say, the actual engineers that come to site are excellent. Once they’ve been booked by our dealer, they’re on site within 24 hours. The issue is getting the dealer to book the engineers as the engineers are third party providers and completely independent of the dealer. It’s the dealer who we pay our service contract to, so they are responsible for booking the service calls.

I also think part of the issue is down to myself not knowing the machine all that well. I’m obviously used to how KM’s work and they don’t have 2nd btr issues and slip sheets on the fuser (as far as I know) so a lot of the issues we’ve had with the KM I’ve been able to sort (most just need a new corona wire or new developer etc). Service engineers were also onsite within 4 working hours of a fault being raised. The Xerox is completely different and I’m still learning what parts tend to cause what issues. I’m sure if I could reach out to support and say ‘I need another 2nd btr’ or I need x because it’s doing y and so on, it would probably speed things up a little but I’m not entirely convinced.

This Versant 80 we bought 2 years or so ago and bought it refurbished, however it hadn’t actually been refurbished before we got it, it was just ‘used’. The engineers have said it’s common for the particular dealer we bought from to send the machines out without refurbishing them, hope for the best and just fix as needed once on site. Not a great way to do business in my opinion. But, because of this, I think we’d struggle to switch the service to another company without paying a hefty price for the machine to be fully overhauled first.

I sold my KM because we needed the space but I’m now thinking I need to be getting a second machine again, which due to price and availability will probably have to be another (properly refurbished this time) Xerox as a backup for when the Versant 80 isn’t working again, so not happy.

I’ve been looking at the Fuji machines and also the canon machines and when we are ready for a brand new machine, I’ll definitely be getting them to quote…along with KM of course.

 

[gazfocus]

4 weeks? I’d be not paying the bill at that point, that tends to get the right folk’s attention.

I agree that it’s probably time to look past your V80 regardless. Maybe get some competition’s sales people in there. I’m surprised your dealer isn’t trying to upgrade you out of it.

I actually ended up sending the director of the dealer an email and copied the service guys in. Basically saying that my contract with them says I should be getting a maximum response time of 4 hours and I’m getting nowhere near that. I also reminded them that I’d already discussed with them that I wanted a Versant 3100 in the new year (a machine that I was initially excited about buying) but at this rate I won’t be buying from them if I can’t rely on the service.

I did end up with a reply within a couple of hours saying that the parts needed weren’t parts that Xerox stock so they’ve been a bit more difficult to get hold of but that the parts will be delivered Monday morning and the engineer was going to be booked today to arrive once the parts are on site.

A little relieved, though it depends what happens when the engineer arrives and if other parts are needed that haven’t been ordered, but we shall see.

 

[SoggyWinter]

I actually ended up sending the director of the dealer an email and copied the service guys in. Basically saying that my contract with them says I should be getting a maximum response time of 4 hours and I’m getting nowhere near that. I also reminded them that I’d already discussed with them that I wanted a Versant 3100 in the new year (a machine that I was initially excited about buying) but at this rate I won’t be buying from them if I can’t rely on the service.

I did end up with a reply within a couple of hours saying that the parts needed weren’t parts that Xerox stock so they’ve been a bit more difficult to get hold of but that the parts will be delivered Monday morning and the engineer was going to be booked today to arrive once the parts are on site.

A little relieved, though it depends what happens when the engineer arrives and if other parts are needed that haven’t been ordered, but we shall see.

The V3100 is end of parts and support in 2025 if I recall...double check on that before making the purchase. The major print engine parts are easy to replace so you could hoard spares and do your own service after EOL. You'd need a bunch of 2nd BTRs, fusers, developer, developer housings, IBT belt, cooling belt, and Fuser Drive Gear Bracket Assembly 007k98681. We go through the last item like candy for some reason.

 

[gazfocus]

The V3100 is end of parts and support in 2025 if I recall...double check on that before making the purchase. The major print engine parts are easy to replace so you could hoard spares and do your own service after EOL. You'd need a bunch of 2nd BTRs, fusers, developer, developer housings, IBT belt, cooling belt, and Fuser Drive Gear Bracket Assembly 007k98681. We go through the last item like candy for some reason.

To be honest, any machine I do buy will be on a service contract so as long as it’s still under contract I should be fine. I did speak to our engineer last time he visited about getting a 3100 and he said they were excellent machines. I might also take a look at the Ricoh c5300/7200 as well but I’ve not seen many refurbished models.

 

[Ynot_UK]

Water under the bridge now, but for anyone in a similar position, the advantage of the C3070 in terms of future years' support/parts availability, is although the machine is discontinued, the model replacing it (C4070) uses many of the same parts. This of course gives additional years servicability, particularly for a lower volume user who may wish to sweat the asset and keep the machine as long as possible.

 

[TJPrinter]

There’s always a possibility for a new machine to have issues but a used or reconditioned one is more likely to need more frequent service. If I remember correctly, you’re doing about the same clicks per month that I do. When I looked at the difference in cost between used and new there was no significant difference in overall cost. The click rate was higher on the used, but the lease was higher on the new. Add some more volume and the new is less expensive than used.

Take a serious look at what all the vendors have to offer with new machines. The piece of mind knowing that you can concentrate on getting work done is well worth the small increase in monthly cost, and there may be no increase in cost.

The Versant 80 shares many of the same parts as the 180, 280 and even some on the 3100 and 4100. Your dealer is messing with you, the slip sheets and fuser belts do not take weeks to get.

 

[gazfocus]

There’s always a possibility for a new machine to have issues but a used or reconditioned one is more likely to need more frequent service. If I remember correctly, you’re doing about the same clicks per month that I do. When I looked at the difference in cost between used and new there was no significant difference in overall cost. The click rate was higher on the used, but the lease was higher on the new. Add some more volume and the new is less expensive than used.

Take a serious look at what all the vendors have to offer with new machines. The piece of mind knowing that you can concentrate on getting work done is well worth the small increase in monthly cost, and there may be no increase in cost.

The Versant 80 shares many of the same parts as the 180, 280 and even some on the 3100 and 4100. Your dealer is messing with you, the slip sheets and fuser belts do not take weeks to get.

Thanks for posting.

To be honest, cost wasn’t so much the issue. When we bought the Xerox, we had a specific need for a machine upstairs (printing stickers) and as it was only a second machine, it didn’t make sense to buy new. Our click rate on the Xerox is 3.8p colour and 0.8p B&W so the same as our KM was.

We haven’t done much volume on the Xerox but now that the Xerox is our only machine, the uptime is even more important - the engineers have said that the issues we’ve had could largely be down to lack of use so as we use the machine more, it should be much more reliable. We shall see.

I have to say though that I won’t buy a machine on lease/finance again if I can help it (not at the moment anyway), but I’m all for getting quotes from the main manufacturers and seeing what we can get.

I’ve so far had a quote for a Versant 280 (quote a bit more than I expected to be honest) and waiting for a quote from Ricoh. Even though it’s probably going to be 6 months or so before we can afford a new machine if we go new, I’d prefer to weigh up my options now so I know what we need to raise. I have also reached out to a different dealer to ask them to keep an eye out for a used 3100 as that particular dealer fully refurbs the machines before selling them and the service is then with Xerox direct.