starting small print shop. need advice

[acacia print]

I started about six years ago and I can say that all the advise so far has been exactly what I have experienced. I bought a old print shop about to close and some of the main points that I will also comment on are as follwos
1] Dont expect to get rich. I am six years in and things are tight.
2] Make sure the copier has excellent sheet to sheet registration
3] Not all jobs will go through the copier. As said some for pricing others for quality.
4] Invest in some sort of creaser, hand or machine as digital work with solids often need a crease before it will fold nicely without cracking.
5] Dont expect to get rich overnight.
6] Dont expect to get rich over night
7] Expect the bills to be harder to pay than you have ever imagioned.
8] Keep your acounts tidy as if you had OCD. obsesive cleaning disorder.
9] Minimise the size of the job that you will accept with no deposit. If they order a huge job they should have a budget for it and a deposit will cover your butt.
10] Make friends in the industry. The ones I have had have saved my butt more than I care to remember. I can not thank them enough.
11] Dont expect to get rich over night ( ave I said that already)
12] expect to work 50% longer than you have ever done on wages just to get a wage that is 50% of what you got when you were on wages.
13] If your still keen after all this then you might just make it. Good gear is worth its weight in salt. Dont be put off by the hard work, theer is a guy locally that startd off only a bit before I did and he is now doing very well for himelf. He took a different aproach from myself but i am learning and starting to get some traction. It is fun, but it is like the worst rollercoaster you cn imagion. you will almost curse the day you were born some days and others think that things coudnt get better.
14] Look after your family relationsships like they were gold. Hand pick flowers and hand deliver then to your wife. Make time for her and your children (or him and your children)
15] Everyso often make yourelf take a 8 hour day and go home so that you can remember what it felt like to be normal..
16] Dont expect to get rich over night....

 

[alf]

I started about six years ago and I can say that all the advise so far has been exactly what I have experienced. I bought a old print shop about to close and some of the main points that I will also comment on are as follwos
1] Dont expect to get rich. I am six years in and things are tight.
2] Make sure the copier has excellent sheet to sheet registration
3] Not all jobs will go through the copier. As said some for pricing others for quality.
4] Invest in some sort of creaser, hand or machine as digital work with solids often need a crease before it will fold nicely without cracking.
5] Dont expect to get rich overnight.
6] Dont expect to get rich over night
7] Expect the bills to be harder to pay than you have ever imagioned.
8] Keep your acounts tidy as if you had OCD. obsesive cleaning disorder.
9] Minimise the size of the job that you will accept with no deposit. If they order a huge job they should have a budget for it and a deposit will cover your butt.
10] Make friends in the industry. The ones I have had have saved my butt more than I care to remember. I can not thank them enough.
11] Dont expect to get rich over night ( ave I said that already)
12] expect to work 50% longer than you have ever done on wages just to get a wage that is 50% of what you got when you were on wages.
13] If your still keen after all this then you might just make it. Good gear is worth its weight in salt. Dont be put off by the hard work, theer is a guy locally that startd off only a bit before I did and he is now doing very well for himelf. He took a different aproach from myself but i am learning and starting to get some traction. It is fun, but it is like the worst rollercoaster you cn imagion. you will almost curse the day you were born some days and others think that things coudnt get better.
14] Look after your family relationsships like they were gold. Hand pick flowers and hand deliver then to your wife. Make time for her and your children (or him and your children)
15] Everyso often make yourelf take a 8 hour day and go home so that you can remember what it felt like to be normal..
16] Dont expect to get rich over night....

8 years in, starting with a single 1250, and running a DC5000 with a 1450. I will say, the experience has been the same. Your first few years will be hard as you learn that cutting is an art, and the only science is the accounting.

For namecards, registration is everything. Get a cutter with a good clamp, sliding screws up everything. Its good that you do the design, as you will soon learn the designs to avoid (Borders, etc)

 

[acacia print]

Amen to that Alf. Borders are a pain. Ok if done offset but it only takes half a millimeter movement and then they look awefull, You can run more and sort but that is wasted time.

 

[wld85022]

I hate to be negative but, don't do it!

You will quickly find out that printing is a very tough business.

But if you are absolutely sure you want to go through with it, it's all about the equipment! Good equipment will save the day and bad equipment will drain your bank account.

Also you'll find out that customers can be a real pain sometimes and things like color and quality can be very subjective and some customers just want stuff for free. Just be very careful!

I would stick to outsourcing.

AMEN AMEN AMEN!!! I have been in this miserable business for too long and this is the WORST time to even think about opening anything "small." Copiers become obsolete as fast as desk top computers. Printing presses require (oh my god!) skilled labor and a decent wage.

Look around; at least here (Phoenix) all the "small" print shops are now health food stores or sandwich shops!

"Small" shops are competing with BIG shops and guess who has the easy road and the hard road? The day of putting some equipment in your garage and making some quick bucks is over... And even if I were going to try that, I'd go with a press rather than a copier.

Don't mean to throw water on anyone's ideas....

 

[buckeyewta]

I may be nuts but I think the situation in my area is different than most. I live in an area where 90% of the people are Amish and do absolutely no internet marketing. There are tons of small businesses in the area that use print products and only 2 print shops that amount to anything. They are mostly pushing their offset presses and are very pricey on short runs. I do have a good relationship with a shop with an offset press and realkze that some jobs will need to go to a bigger shop. I realize that I won't get rich doing this but I also own another business that uses about $30,000 in print products a year. Doing that in house could definitely save some cash.

 

[acacia print]

Sounds like you might be onto a possible winner then. Just make sure you do your homework to make sure the gear you get is the best suited for you.

 

[John Clifford]

I am a graphic designer and have been outsourcing all my print jobs so far. I am thinking about getting equipment to handle most of the projects in house. I mostly do business cards, brochures and small booklets. I am considering leasing a Xerox Docucolor 242 for $209 a month plus $.06 per page for the service agreement which includes complete servicing and all supplies. Finishing will be done offline with a used saddle stitcher and a 400 page manual paper cutter. Anybody have any advice?

What I tell my students is to really think about this. You're a designer. Let's say you're paid $100/hr. to do design work. IS IT LIKELY THAT YOU'LL BE DOING THE PRINTING YOURSELF? If so it's unlikely that you'll get the same hourly rate you make to do design work. If you can afford to hire a lower priced operator, then maybe. But even then consider how much hand holding and management time will be taken away from your design work.

Really, outsourcing to a good printing company is the best way to go unless you're really willing to try and compete in the printing market and give up the designing (or at least part of the designing).

 

[buckeyewta]

I have been thinking about continuing to outsource versus printing in house. In my area most people will come to you with print projects not design projects. Unless I advertise for printing I will probably not get many design jobs. The cost of having the printer will basicly be $250 a month for the lease and service plan plus $.055 per click for supplies. I would also need to spend about $2500 on a good folder, booklet maker and cutter. I will not need to rent any additional space or anything as I am working out of the basement of my home.

 

[ondemandbindery]

Please do us a favor. If you go this route post in a year how you are doing. I would be curious as to if you have a background in Manufacturing at all. And a background in Cost Analysis, Marketing, Accounting, and the list goes on. I tell you this based on what you expect to spend on your finishing equipment. $2500.00 might start to get you some nice scoring attachments. And if you think there are ways around it wait until one of your jobs lands in a shop who can create Letterpress type scoring as apposed to something less. I see it quite often and once someone raises the bar it never gets lowered.....

Do yourself a favor and start researching this website. I can list a bunch of things right off the bat that you have no idea about just to put this equipment in your basement. I love the Small business owner spirit as that is the backbone of this country. But if take the work from your competitors they will not hesitate to find out who you are and where you are located. In a basement of a home is typically not designed to run a business and if your locality does now allow it someone can easily shut you down. And it can happen because a Printer I know had it happen to him. The Industry is slowly decaying and those who still exist will protect what they have....

Good luck,

JW

 

[buckeyewta]

I live in a rural area. There is no zoning here, and no license required to operate a small business. I will more or less be doing this as a hobby for right now and will mostly be printing materials for my other business and the nonprofit orginization that I am a part of.

 

[ondemandbindery]

I do like the idea of Printing for your own business. That is beyond the scope of my accounting ability but I bet you would have some serious tax advantages to it. One thing about putting the Digital Box in the basement will be the control of humidity. As for your non profit work, nothing beats connections in life with the right people. I would certainly say you have those 2 things working for you. Try to find you a real good friend who owns a Print shop or a Bindery as you will need them.

JW

 

[Joe Duffy]

The cost of having the printer will basicly be $250 a month for the lease and service plan plus $.055 per click for supplies. I would also need to spend about $2500 on a good folder, booklet maker and cutter. I will not need to rent any additional space or anything as I am working out of the basement of my home.

But you will need to control the temprature and humidity of the enviroment, run the electric to support the printer, put in a power conditioner, and i hope you have a walk out basement with a 36" wide door to move the engine and materials into your basement.
Don't forget about getting an account set up for paper to be delivered and the cost and time associated with that. Also do not forget to get a business licence and insurance because if someone falls or gets hurt on your property you will be liable.

You have the basic setup, do yourself a favor and do a business plan with a real ROI and take it to your bank like you want a loan to do this and see what they say.

 

[[email protected]]

I'd take any advice with a grain of salt and do what you have a passion to want to do. Do you know how many times I've gotten some BS from people in the past 15 years about how this or that was a bad idea? Too many to count. Yet here I am, with a house, property, a cat, and my own business.

I'm not saying everybody on here is lying to you...there's truth and wisdom in their advice...but...according to the general consensus of the advice on this and many other threads, it's better to OUTSOURCE, OUTSOURCE, OUTSOURCE...

...AND you'll make way more money and take less risk if you OUTSOURCE, OUTSOURCE, OUTSOURCE...

and yada yada...

Well, why the hell aren't you people on here following your own advice and outsourcing. It would seem to me if I was the owner of your shop it would be in my best interest to fire all of you, liquidate my equipment, and outsource everything.

I may just make a new thread on this but I want every nay sayer on here to say why it is that they aren't outsourcing...when it's all 99% of the people on here recommend doing to anybody that is looking to open up their own shop.

 

[[email protected]]

I posted this on a different printing forum...you may find it useful.

Don't let these folks discourage you.

Ok, now that everyone has tried to scare you away from your dream (although some points they make are valid) and tried to steer you towards partnering with another printer by outsourcing...

Let me tell you the downsides and MANY horrors that come from outsourcing to another printer and acting as a broker:

1. Getting pricing information to your customers is a total nightmare. Mostly because you'll have to wait so long getting information back and forth to your outsourcing partner. Any time any variable changes, from paper stocks, to sizes, to ink colors to be used, etc., more quoting nightmares. You want to be able to quote your customer on demand. And forget about a good price list. Most likely you'll quote a job and price list will be obsolete for whatever reason by the time you take the job to the printer.

2. You're 100% dependent upon the choices that the printing partner makes on everything. For instance, who they buy their paper from, what they will stock, what minimum inventory they will keep in stock. You may think to yourself that there's a good buy going on a certain paper right now but unless your printer partner is buying it forget it. You may be a better price negotiator than your printer but by buying from them you're paying more than they are. That happened to us years ago, I got better rates buying paper stock from my own paper suppliers than they were getting.

3. You are at the mercy of the quality standards and turn around times of your printing partners. Make no mistake, you may not be the top priority for that particular printer and your jobs may get pushed to the back of the line. I've had to wait weeks to months on some of the early partners that we fired. Also, if your job is too small or meaningless, you may not hear back from your sales rep at your partner printer...you're not important enough to bother with. It's amazing how many times I've had to send work back to multiple multi-generational "professional" printers with millions in equipment because of simple quality control errors; poor color shading, specks and lines on the papers...all obvious unacceptable problems.

4. Your new found printing outsource partner could just end up being your biggest competitor and enemy. Boy did I find that out the hard way. Oh don't worry, we won't compete with you or steal customers...rrrrrriiiiiight. Not only do you have to hope that your printer partner doesn't start marketing to your customer base but what happens when one of your customers gets a quote from both you and from your competing partner? Well you may just end up going bankrupt because you are now an irrelevant middle man taking a piece of the action. Oh and it doesn't have to be a local printing partner, with the internet your printing partner from across the country could end up being your biggest competitor.

5. Ok, so you should be afraid of getting too heavily invested in equipment and the huge learning curve of just starting out since many shops are closing...so what happens when you base your whole business on a print broker outsourcing model and your partner or partners go bankrupt...OOPS! There's so many variables that you can't control with your partners, financing, stealing, etc., etc., at least as your own company you control your expenses and marketing/sales efforts.

6. If you outsource, how is the finished product going to get to the customer? Are you going to have the printer partner drop ship the items without you checking the quality? What are the return policies on sh*tty work? Are you going to have the printed product delivered to your location and re-ship it to your customer with the added expense?

7. Ok, so let's say you find the perfect outsourcing partner and all goes well. What happens when prices change to a point where you can't be competitive or maintain your lifestyle? Will YOUR customers be ok with your vendors' price increases?

Also, look at the negative advice these guys are giving you and the positive advice. The positive advice comes from people looking to sell something, the negative advice comes from other printers, potential competitors or ones looking to sell to you in a broker fashion.

Are they correct, partly. Sure it is tough as hell for any industry, and yes there is tons of overcapacity. Is learning to run a press hard, maybe, anything you've never done before will be hardest at first, but it's not brain surgery or rocket science either. It's natural for an individual to hype up their job and the difficulty and skill level. I'm not saying it's a walk in the park or a piece of cake, but anything can be learned. The ease of which comes from how badly you want to learn and your level of devotion and passion.

Bottom line, if you want to make this happen you will work hard at it and be successful; even if you have to fail a few times. Look at Milton Hershey, he failed 3-4 times going on the verge of bankruptcy, but in the end he made a multi-billion dollar empire.

Remember, with devotion, willingness, and passion; things are easier to learn and you'll meet your goals quicker. Everyone here on this forum was once new or their companies started from nothing.

Just ask yourself how bad do you want it?

 

[Joe Duffy]

I'd take any advice with a grain of salt and do what you have a passion to want to do. Do you know how many times I've gotten some BS from people in the past 15 years about how this or that was a bad idea? Too many to count. Yet here I am, with a house, property, a cat, and my own business.

I'm not saying everybody on here is lying to you...there's truth and wisdom in their advice...but...according to the general consensus of the advice on this and many other threads, it's better to OUTSOURCE, OUTSOURCE, OUTSOURCE...

...AND you'll make way more money and take less risk if you OUTSOURCE, OUTSOURCE, OUTSOURCE...

and yada yada...

Well, why the hell aren't you people on here following your own advice and outsourcing. It would seem to me if I was the owner of your shop it would be in my best interest to fire all of you, liquidate my equipment, and outsource everything.

I may just make a new thread on this but I want every nay sayer on here to say why it is that they aren't outsourcing...when it's all 99% of the people on here recommend doing to anybody that is looking to open up their own shop.

Why do you generalize so... I do outsource - alot.
Almost 40% of my work is outsourced. Why? It is more efficient than buying the equipment and doing it myself. When I give advice it is based on years of watching people and companies make decisions based on little to no input from those that had to do the work. This resulted in poor decisions, lost productivity and in some cases a closing of the business.
I stated they should do a real ROI and take it to the bank for review and input. If my bank would not lend me money then maybe I missed something. It is hard to be sucessful at a single full time occupation without the addition of a second one. Shops can be opened sucessfully. Most small business owners I know spend 12 to 15 hours per day to make it happen, if you are already a full-time Graphic designer, then making a go at a second full business would be tough to me.

 

[hansman]

In my 30 + years of printing I could never recommend a worse industry to start off in today.
Sure you can try it many others have but you will most likely fail.

Lets look at the facts: In a year or so everything (or at least 95%) will be on a digital tablet if it is not already. As the price of tablets, readers, and Ipads drop (think Calculator) everyone on the planet will be reading or obtaining content through the internet. You can click on an ad and that takes you to the website that a product ad is available on, order it and return to your reading. Heck most of the time I see something in a magazine I say I am going to check that out on the web, fire up my trusty mac and I am in there for hours........

I just saw an Android tablet for $200 Wi Fi only. When that number drops below $100 or $50 who is going to bother reading anything on a static printed piece?

Now Wide format as well as Packaging still have some growth and I would advise if anyone in their right mind that wants to go in to printing NOW to explore these 2 avenues and steer clear of commercial printing.

Disclaimer:
I come from a family of printers, my family were in printing as well as my Wife. We still like reading a real magazine or book but believe me when I tell you we are the minority sad to say.

 

[[email protected]]

If you have a failing attitude then most certainly you will fail.

The original poster needs to do an analysis based on their situation. They are graphic designers so maybe they'd have an easy time getting print work from current clients.

They're just going to have to do a lot of number crunching. If the numbers work and they can grow to support the volume of their own equipment then maybe they'll make better margins on some items rather than outsourcing.

But outsourcing is not risk free as I can attest to that.

 

[OutSourceD]

My company is down to 1/3 in sales from where we were just 5 years ago. I am down to one employee, had to sell my boat, my big Mercedes, and lost my ability to take a couple of vacations every year. We are struggling even though we've been in business for over 20 years. I would not consider it if I were you.

 

[buckeyewta]

Well I bought a production printer today, a Xerox Workcentre 7655. The way it looks we will have enough work for it to make it woth the investment. As I stated before we are in an area where most of the population does not have internet due to religious reasons. Printed advertising is the only way that most businesses have to reach out to their customers. There definitely seems to be a demand for print products in my area.

 

[margadri]

Well I bought a production printer today, a Xerox Workcentre 7655. The way it looks we will have enough work for it to make it woth the investment. As I stated before we are in an area where most of the population does not have internet due to religious reasons. Printed advertising is the only way that most businesses have to reach out to their customers. There definitely seems to be a demand for print products in my area.

Best of luck and congratulations for the Xerox