Tired of my 6500

[GM PRINTER]

The machine is great from a price standpoint. But as our business grows the machine cannot. Registration issues, and quailty problems are always present with no answer from KM. Does anyone have the sheet that shows what the machine should do as far as registration is concerned? I've heard from some that if the machine is not working to par and they cannot fix it they have to release us from the lease. Is this true?

 

[UberTech]

The spec for reg is .05mm if they said that is what to expect and you have in writeing AND it they can't get it to do it then, yeah. I reckon it would hold water in court.

 

[lfelton]

The machine is great from a price standpoint. But as our business grows the machine cannot. Registration issues, and quailty problems are always present with no answer from KM. Does anyone have the sheet that shows what the machine should do as far as registration is concerned? I've heard from some that if the machine is not working to par and they cannot fix it they have to release us from the lease. Is this true?

Uber will probably chip in with the exact numbers, but I think FTB registration is 0.5mm per side and there's a little bit more wiggle room that means the worst case is slightly more than the 1mm (yes, I realise "wiggle room" is not that technical).

We don't have registration problems with 6501s, but then we're pretty unadventurous when it comes to stock. We always use the same stuff for coated, uncoated and book wove, same weights all the time and we know what "works" and what doesn't (like lightweight coated stock!). We stick to good quality and we don't do "specials" for customers. I do know at least one other print shop (that knows what it's doing) that did have FTB registration issues with an '01, but they worked with KM and I believe got it sorted in the end. I'd get KM in, with stock they "approve" of and their own operator and get them to run a few hundred through with no more than just over a mm "movement" during the run. If they can't do it, I think you have a good case that they'd need to sort out.

BTW, if you're NOT getting movement during the run and are simply having problems with the FTB lining up, then I think your supplier might not have trained your operators properly.

If you describe your quality issues, there are some people on this forum who might be able to help, or at least tell you whether that's "normal" or not.

Hope that helps.

 

[Craig]

I agree with lfelton, if the registration is off the same on every sheet then it's operator, if the registration is bouncing around from sheet to sheet then it's mechanical.

 

[GM PRINTER]

Most jobs I have do have about the same amount of skew from one sheet to the next. There is some slight movement throughout the job but my problem is printed art is crooked on the sheet. So when I flip the paper over to back it up its that much more out of whack for the second pass. (100#CVR)

 

[lfelton]

Most jobs I have do have about the same amount of skew from one sheet to the next. There is some slight movement throughout the job but my problem is printed art is crooked on the sheet. So when I flip the paper over to back it up its that much more out of whack for the second pass. (100#CVR)

Sorry, but that sounds like an operator training issue. It may be that your trainer wasn't competent, or maybe the original operator has moved on. I remember years ago when we had our first semi-auto plate loading press, we had real grief with it for months and months until we found out that the trainer had trained the minders wrong (probably he was't properly trained himself). Once that was "fixed", i.e. the minders were shown how to load plates properly, they absolutely loved the auto loaders.

Having bought a number of litho presses and digital presses, I think that in general the standard of training for digital is pretty poor compared with litho. I don't think you can train an operator in a day or even two on a new machine, and poorly trained operators are a recipe for problems.

 

[Craig]

GM Printer, I sure hope someone like Uber Tech will chime in, but I am going to go out on the proverbial limb and say there must be some type of skew adjustment on the 6500. I know from experience with my Xerox it may take an hour and a few hundred sheets to get it dialed in, just don't expect to push a button and it's correct.

 

[GM PRINTER]

There actually isn't a skew adjustment on the 6500. You can adjust magnification and x&y axis's.

 

[Craig]

Is there anything the Tech can do for skew adjustment? Gosh, I would hope so!

 

[GM PRINTER]

So far they haven't been able to fix it. Sometimes they can get closer but not good enough for me.

 

[UberTech]

You say you work and turn the print which tells me that the stock is over 256gsm so your feeding from a bulk tray. Is the single or double tray? If your using the bypass then good luck to you sir.

 

[GM PRINTER]

No, we have the big trays on the end. Trays 4 & 5. We always use tray 5 for our heavy stock since its a straight path.

 

[UberTech]

Right, so looking at a large sheet portrait are the sides ok but the top and bottom skew. Or does the entire sheet look skewed?

 

[GM PRINTER]

I actually have both instances. A job I ran this morning though was off about .6mm top and bottom skewing. So once I back it up its actually 1.2mm off. Have you seen a solve for this?

 

[UberTech]

I actually have both instances. A job I ran this morning though was off about .6mm top and bottom skewing. So once I back it up its actually 1.2mm off. Have you seen a solve for this?

Double answer there. The job you ran this morning the sides were ok but the top an bottom were skewed? Or the whole sheet was skewed i.e all four sides

 

[GM PRINTER]

All four sides. Its like the whole image was slanted down to the right.

 

[UberTech]

All four sides. Its like the whole image was slanted down to the right.

Skew to me means the image is printed square just not square on the sheet, slanted means the image is not square but some side are paralle to the edge of the sheet.

In either case if you do the both sides adjust (but only for one side in your case) it should cure this. Store the settings with the stock name should you need them again.

If the prints are constantly slanted as by my definition then your techician needs to perfrom the CD Skew adjustment which is a trapezoid adjustment in the engine. If you look in your POD userguide you may be able to do it yourself.

If the sheet is skew then the problem is almost certainly due to the PF not being setup quite as good as it could be. Is the floor level? Your not in a 200 year old building with wood floors, or installed on shag pile carpet?

A quick check for this is to pull out the top tray and look at the gap between the side of the tray and the side of the PF unit chassis, by where the paper comes out the feed head on the left hand side. It should be about 3-4mm.

 

[GM PRINTER]

My floors are not the best in the world so I guess that could be a factor. I'm actually going to copy and paste your message into an email to my rep. Maybe they can start working on the problem again.

 

[UberTech]

My floors are not the best in the world so I guess that could be a factor. I'm actually going to copy and paste your message into an email to my rep. Maybe they can start working on the problem again.

Ok, Problem numero uno, sort the floor out. someone needs to buy a strong plinth for the machine to sit on. 3/4" particle\chip board or something before anyone adjusts anything.

 

[Klew]

So far they haven't been able to fix it. Sometimes they can get closer but not good enough for me.

use this link,
http://proofs.groupimaging.com/gi/ko...tProcedure.doc
it give instructions on how to fix your skew and reg problem

work great for me, had to do it once and never have to do it again