Used production printers

[GregNac19]

I’m just wondering in the forum if people are interested in slightly used production equipment. What are your thoughts about used versus new? Do you guys and gals look at this as a used car or just outdated technology?

 

[Puch]

We put a lot of thinking into that topic when we were to equip our shop. Sales reps showed us a lot of used and new machines, and being newcomers, we were always horrified by the condition of the used machinery, and the environment they have been running. That left us with only one choice and we went with brand new printers.

Now I see a totally different picture. Those run-down machines are still churning out pages and the companies using them make a lot of money on the production, since there is no lease. Some of them even abandoned their service contract and somehow manage to keep the printers on a production-level condition.

Honestly, BW technology is absolutely mature, and if you don't need inkjet, most of the used machines, which aren't older than 6-8 years, will fill the bill.

Color production is a bit different, I do see progress here but mainly on the practical side of daily operation. New printers always have something better, eg. better front-to-back registration, easier setup, tighter color control. Still, 5-6 years old machines produce acceptable and sellable printouts, their owners beating us to earth with pricing. Again, no lease.

What I feel is any used machine can be a workhorse if you use it for the right product, and the manufacturer still support that particular model.

Just my two cents.

 

[GregNac19]

Ok so what about if the used machine was let’s say a Ricoh Pro 9100 and it only had 2 million prints on it. The selling price a year and a half ago was roughly $250,000. If you could get that machine at $100,000 would that be worth it? If servicewas still covered by direct it whoever you would want to service it.

 

[Puch]

That machine is a beast, 2 million clicks is nothing for that. The tech is around four years old, so it's still 'modern'. But there could be a mismatch around pricing; when new, a well equipped 9100 might cost USD 100,000, but after two years it must be lower. Or it's something 'out-of-this-world', I mean a full-blown system which has all the possible modules before and after the printing engine.

 

[cDirect]

I can tell you that $100, 000 for a C9100 with 2 mil click machine is too much.....Like Puch said it must have all the features ever made. If not, a base machine like that you can get for $45k-$50k

 

[kslight]

I also agree that's too much, as someone that has seen proposals on a 9200 for comparison.

Per the original question, there is a balance to be struck between lease payments and service agreements/click rates, that will be part of what you need to evaluate. Typically a new machine will have a lower click rate because they expect to spend less on servicing it. Sometimes the cost will be so high to service an old machine that any savings you may gain by spending less on the machine will be lost in the cost to service it (not to mention the downtime).

Also, you can expect older equipment to get fewer prints between calls, and maybe down longer for more unusual problems (requiring parts be ordered, etc). But to use US as an example, as long as I've been here we've had very dated BW equipment...our customers don't comment on the quality. But these days we do have a lot of downtime on those machines, and we are looking to finally get out of them. Our color we used to have some pretty dated machines, in the last few years we brought ourselves up to fairly modern stuff and its light years better than what we had. Again, no complaints from customers. But in the process of looking at new BW, we've also looked at new color, and there is an undeniable difference in quality to getting the latest stuff, not to mention being able to run much heavier paper, faster, better registration, etc....

Classic answer...it depends? You know what you are printing every day and what your customers expect better than we do. If you have redundant equipment, having two older model printers may give you a cost savings and the downtime may not hurt you too much. But if you choose to run your whole business on one used printer that may not be as reliable, that could cost you in the long run.

 

[msaeger]

Ok so what about if the used machine was let’s say a Ricoh Pro 9100 and it only had 2 million prints on it. The selling price a year and a half ago was roughly $250,000. If you could get that machine at $100,000 would that be worth it? If servicewas still covered by direct it whoever you would want to service it.

Look on ebay those are like 25k on there.

 

[cDirect]

Look on ebay those are like 25k on there.

msaeger, come on man.... Like that can be used as a comparison. You should know better that your employer does not like that type of "purchase". By the time you all get done with quoting all the parts needed to even remotely get it close to a Ricoh service agreement you might as well just buy a new one.

 

[msaeger]

msaeger, come on man.... Like that can be used as a comparison. You should know better that your employer does not like that type of "purchase". By the time you all get done with quoting all the parts needed to even remotely get it close to a Ricoh service agreement you might as well just buy a new one.

Probably but where can you get a used one where that wouldn't be the case? Except from a Ricoh dealer maybe?

 

[gregbatch]

Going back a few years, a base entrance and exit unit would list for $212,500. However the real street price if buying outright was about 125,000. All of the add-ons sold for 45-50% of list. Street price of E-43 RIP was $15k E-83 $30k. So, with typical add-ons and a Plock 350 you could push $200k. An off lease machine should go for about 25% of street price. So $50k would be realistic.

 

[kslight]

Probably but where can you get a used one where that wouldn't be the case? Except from a Ricoh dealer maybe?

Subject to availability of course, but when a machine comes off a lease and it goes back to the manufacturer or the dealer, that's where you get them. I don't think buying off of eBay, or direct from another print shop even is a great idea. The question I would ask them...is why the shop is getting rid of it? Most print shops hold onto equipment until its long been worn out. I think an off-lease machine is the best bet if you have to go used, a dealer probably wouldn't offer it back on the market if they couldn't continue to service it for 5 years (or whatever), so you won't see a "tired" machine being sold as refurbished. But we were notified of machines from one dealer...like an 8120 with 800k on it (nothing), and a 7110 with 500k on it... Now we didn't go for those deals, but that's what we usually see on these kind of deals.