Versant verse Xerox 800/1000

[BigSi]

Ok in one corner I've got a brand Versant and in the other corner I've got a 3-4 year old 800. Assuming they are roughly the same price and click rates are roughly the same which would you go for? Volumes are not huge (looking at replacing two machines a Xerox DC 5000 and Xerox 700, the 700 is crap but that is another story). Do quite a bit of 300gsm card. Main issues are: Registration, Solids, Straightness of image, Colour consistency threw long runs (this is a joke on the 700). You get the idea. Any help/thoughts appreciated. thanks Simon.

 

[DYP]

The biggest difference the 800/1000 (where the toner does down it is glossy) the Versant (where the toner does down it is Matte). The Versant output looks much more like offset. The 800/1000 look like a color copier from years ago. On the 800/1000, Xerox should offer the matte toner of the Versant or iGen and then if you want gloss use the gloss 5th color.

 

[fletcher0854]

I don't have experience with the Versant, but DYP is right on the toner with the 800/1000. We had a customer return a product because they said we printed it on C1S. It was on uncoated paper and the toner lays down so glossy it looks like coated stock. But, since the clear toner for 5th unit is paid for by you (not included in service contract) it wouldn't be economical to print matte+clear.

We also have a 700 that was pretty much given to us. If you are experienced with that I think you would be happy with 800/1000. Better color, better registration, better solids etc. I have ran 14mil on the 1000 and it stayed in register front to back.

 

[DYP]

I don't have experience with the Versant, but DYP is right on the toner with the 800/1000. We had a customer return a product because they said we printed it on C1S. It was on uncoated paper and the toner lays down so glossy it looks like coated stock. But, since the clear toner for 5th unit is paid for by you (not included in service contract) it wouldn't be economical to print matte+clear.

We also have a 700 that was pretty much given to us. If you are experienced with that I think you would be happy with 800/1000. Better color, better registration, better solids etc. I have ran 14mil on the 1000 and it stayed in register front to back.

You should say in relation to the 700. The Versant on the other hand is as good or maybe slightly better color and registration than the 800/1000. I looked at both this past summer. The gloss of the 1000 was a total turnoff to me. If the 1000 had matte toner I would use that all the time just like I do on our Versant. With matte toner on the 1000 if someone wants gloss or spot gloss with the 5th unit on the 800/1000 you could up charge it just like for over laminate making the 1000 a much more versatile machine.

 

[BigSi]

You should say in relation to the 700. The Versant on the other hand is as good or maybe slightly better color and registration than the 800/1000. I looked at both this past summer. The gloss of the 1000 was a total turnoff to me. If the 1000 had matte toner I would use that all the time just like I do on our Versant. With matte toner on the 1000 if someone wants gloss or spot gloss with the 5th unit on the 800/1000 you could up charge it just like for over laminate making the 1000 a much more versatile machine.

Thanks for all this. It does seem a bit weird why Xerox would make the 800/1000 with a high gloss toner (like my old dc5000) and then give a spot over gloss option when the toner is all ready so glossy. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[kdw75]

From what I have been told, the 1000 had some other drawbacks, when compared to the Versant. I was told that the 1000 wasn't able to do mixed weight media without slowing down, and that it had some problems running booklets that had a mix of color and B&W pages. Again, this is not from personal experience, just what a specialist told me.

I really feel like the Versant is the better machine, but it isn't designed for the volumes of the 1000.

 

[fletcher0854]

It is actually a Clear Spot Varnish. Used to enhance logos, highlights, security etc.

 

[DYP]

It is actually a Clear Spot Varnish. Used to enhance logos, highlights, security etc.

Or can also be applied as a flood varnish.

 

[BigSi]

Or can also be applied as a flood varnish.

Yep, got that it is a varnish but why would you put a varnish (to make an area shiny) over something that is all ready shiny?
The only reason I can think of is to maybe make it more scratch resistant.

Thanks for all the other information, It is looking like the Versant maybe the better machine. How does speed compare with the 800?. I assume it is slower than the 1000. thanks again.

 

[DYP]

Yep, got that it is a varnish but why would you put a varnish (to make an area shiny) over something that is all ready shiny?

It is only shiny where the toner is applied, and that is why it looks so gaudy without doing a flood varnish.

 

[kdw75]

Yep, got that it is a varnish but why would you put a varnish (to make an area shiny) over something that is all ready shiny?
The only reason I can think of is to maybe make it more scratch resistant.

Thanks for all the other information, It is looking like the Versant maybe the better machine. How does speed compare with the 800?. I assume it is slower than the 1000. thanks again.

The Versant matches the speed of the 1000, unless you run stock over 300GSM.

 

[thebluesdude]

Just a couple of points might help, the 5000 you run is only glossy as it's an oil based device, the 1000 which is wax based
can actually be controlled by using low gloss colour profiles which tames it down a bit

 

[BigSi]

Just a couple of points might help, the 5000 you run is only glossy as it's an oil based device, the 1000 which is wax based
can actually be controlled by using low gloss colour profiles which tames it down a bit

Thanks, did not know about the 'wax" of the 1000. Yes the oil is a real pain on the 5000. Often have to wipe solids as the sheets come out before the oil has a chance to dry. (to get rid of streaks). As you can image a real pain on anything but the shortest run. ta Simon

 

[Yroc]

We are looking for a new press and had previously installed a J75 after having a Konica C7000. We only print on 250-300gsm stocks and lots of textured stocks. The J75 was garbage right off the batt. The Versant was terrible as well. They both had really poor image quality and toner coverage.

We do not have the volume to justify the Xerox 1000, but looks like that's what we are going to get as it can handle the thick stocks and textures better than any toner printer we've found. I just had a 3 hour demo and was able to print on about 20 off-set stocks, the thickest being 18pt. 2 cotton stocks and 1 130# linen stock printed poorly and the rest were very acceptable. We didn't have time to create custom profiles/settings for each stock, so they were all printed on a generic setting, so we maybe able to get the bad ones better, but it has not been my experience in the past, that stocks that don't work will get much better with the voltage and other settings provided.

Also, we were worried about the 'glossy' look and found that any coated stock really enhances the 'gloss' Most the papers we tested were uncoated and this really reduced the glossy look of the toner. Not that it looked off-set matte, but it didn't look crazy glossy, it looked really nice (hard to explain a look, I guess you like it or you don't).

 

[Craig]

Make sure you get the Full Width Array, it will make profiling MUCH easier.

 

[arossetti]

Make sure you get the Full Width Array, it will make profiling MUCH easier.

To anyone who is thinking of adding it mostly because of the ability to profile know that this is not a spectrophotometer. It is a scanner, it does not read spectral data if that is important to you. If it is not then scan away and you will be providing much more consistent color than 99% of your digital printer competition.

 

[Londen]

To anyone who is thinking of adding it mostly because of the ability to profile know that this is not a spectrophotometer. It is a scanner, it does not read spectral data if that is important to you. If it is not then scan away and you will be providing much more consistent color than 99% of your digital printer competition.

But it (Versant 2100) also has the capability to allow users to calibrate by spectrophotometer, no?

 

[DYP]

But it (Versant 2100) also has the capability to allow users to calibrate by spectrophotometer, no?

Yes and it is much more accurate and you have the ability to control the blacks etc.

 

[arossetti]

But it (Versant 2100) also has the capability to allow users to calibrate by spectrophotometer, no?

Correct, the only xerox product with an inline spectro I think is the iGen & the now defunct 8080, I could be wrong. Only problem with the inline is that it is only looking at one part of the sheet. So inboard/outboard color shifts go unnoticed.

 

[Kunnajar]

Correct, the only xerox product with an inline spectro I think is the iGen & the now defunct 8080, I could be wrong. Only problem with the inline is that it is only looking at one part of the sheet. So inboard/outboard color shifts go unnoticed.

J75 has inline spectro. And inboard outboard uniformity control is a different process. Versant and J75/C75/C60/C70 has the uniformity automation built in with either SIQA-tool or with Full width array.