Versant verse Xerox 800/1000

[Yroc]

Okay, getting ready to sign for an x1000. I got to noticing that the blacks really aren't that great on our samples from my demo yesterday. They are much better on the c7000 samples we have of the same images on the same papers. Now I see this about the spectro being able to give better blacks? Is this true? We didn't use anything but the Full Width Array and also did not calibrate for each paper, but would really like to see the print density be a bit more, especially the blacks.

 

[kdw75]

J75 has inline spectro. And inboard outboard uniformity control is a different process. Versant and J75/C75/C60/C70 has the uniformity automation built in with either SIQA-tool or with Full width array.

The Versant has the uniformity adjustment as well.

 

[arossetti]

Okay, getting ready to sign for an x1000. I got to noticing that the blacks really aren't that great on our samples from my demo yesterday. They are much better on the c7000 samples we have of the same images on the same papers. Now I see this about the spectro being able to give better blacks? Is this true? We didn't use anything but the Full Width Array and also did not calibrate for each paper, but would really like to see the print density be a bit more, especially the blacks.

100% Black from my Color Press has a density of 1.92. Thats pretty dark.

 

[Yroc]

100% Black from my Color Press has a density of 1.92. Thats pretty dark.

I got good blacks on basic stocks, like 100# silk, but not as black on 130# cotton or any other uncoated raw type paper.

 

[arossetti]

I got good blacks on basic stocks, like 100# silk, but not as black on 130# cotton or any other uncoated raw type paper.

Ah yes, mottle on uncoated stocks is an issue for this press. Luckily I don't get those requests often but using a digital uncoated stock helps a lot.

 

[Craig]

Having the Full Width Array will help overcome all but the most difficult mottle.

 

[joshlindsay]

Ok in one corner I've got a brand Versant and in the other corner I've got a 3-4 year old 800. Assuming they are roughly the same price and click rates are roughly the same which would you go for? Volumes are not huge (looking at replacing two machines a Xerox DC 5000 and Xerox 700, the 700 is crap but that is another story). Do quite a bit of 300gsm card. Main issues are: Registration, Solids, Straightness of image, Colour consistency threw long runs (this is a joke on the 700). You get the idea. Any help/thoughts appreciated. thanks Simon.

Hey Si,

Sounds like it could be my 800 which you're looking at as we've purchased the 1000i with gold ink arriving in March.

At the moment we're running the 800 and a Versant. Both very different outputs but both have the advantages.

The Fiery RIP on the Versant is phenomenally fast compared to our Creo on 800.
Multi page books and huge variable jobs fly through.

The prints off the Versant are very matte however in the 800 we do have matte toner so it's not as glossy as others.
Personally I prefer the vibrancy of the 800.

Having both my faith is still in the 800. It's a bigger, more robust machine that I feel can handle truck loads of volume.
The clear is a bit let down and we've only gone through 2 cartridges in just under 4 years.
Sadly you'll get the best results with clear being laid down on the white stock rather than over print.

I think both machines are a big step above the 5000.
The matte toner in the 800 is truckloads matter than than the 5000.

Give me a bell if you want to pop out come see the 2 machines - josh at dmail . co . nz

 

[kdw75]

We put our Versant to the test right away. We had a job that normally went to press, but the small quantity begged to be put on the Xerox. It was Gainsborough 130lb cover, which has a texture about 10 times greater than linen stocks. They wanted a flooded reflex panel on it of course. After some tinkering with the settings we were able to get it to lay down sellable quality. While it wasn't absolutely perfect, it was damn close, and the customer was happy.

We never have any trouble with regular textured stocks on the Versant, now on the C75, it is very hit and miss if your running any uncoated stocks that have an uneven finish.

I haven't even experience the 1000, but I was under the impression that it had the same type of fuser as the Versant, so wouldn't it have the same results???

 

[Yroc]

The prints off the Versant are very matte however in the 800 we do have matte toner so it's not as glossy as others.
Personally I prefer the vibrancy of the 800.

I am very interested in how you are running matte toner in your 800. How are you doing this?

 

[joshlindsay]

I am very interested in how you are running matte toner in your 800. How are you doing this?

A whole bunch of customers in New Zealand complained about the gloss of the 800/1000 when it was first released as most were coming from 700's which had a very flat print. We ordered ours quite late and got a matte toner upgrade around 3 months after install. The difference was huge. Do they not have matte toner in the US?

 

[Kunnajar]

A whole bunch of customers in New Zealand complained about the gloss of the 800/1000 when it was first released as most were coming from 700's which had a very flat print. We ordered ours quite late and got a matte toner upgrade around 3 months after install. The difference was huge. Do they not have matte toner in the US?

I have heard that the matte toner is only available in Asia and Oceania.

 

[joshlindsay]

I have heard that the matte toner is only available in Asia and Oceania.

Very strange that Xerox would limit it like that especially seeing as customers are complaining about gloss. I think 80%+ of the machines in NZ have been converted to matte toner.

 

[Yroc]

this is the response from my Xerox rep:

"The Matte toner option is not available in the U.S.
It was tested and not shown to have sufficient change or improvement to make it worthy of release here."

 

[BigSi]

Hey Si,

Sounds like it could be my 800 which you're looking at as we've purchased the 1000i with gold ink arriving in March.

At the moment we're running the 800 and a Versant. Both very different outputs but both have the advantages.

The Fiery RIP on the Versant is phenomenally fast compared to our Creo on 800.
Multi page books and huge variable jobs fly through.

The prints off the Versant are very matte however in the 800 we do have matte toner so it's not as glossy as others.
Personally I prefer the vibrancy of the 800.

Having both my faith is still in the 800. It's a bigger, more robust machine that I feel can handle truck loads of volume.
The clear is a bit let down and we've only gone through 2 cartridges in just under 4 years.
Sadly you'll get the best results with clear being laid down on the white stock rather than over print.

I think both machines are a big step above the 5000.
The matte toner in the 800 is truckloads matter than than the 5000.

Give me a bell if you want to pop out come see the 2 machines - josh at dmail . co . nz

Thanks Josh. This is very helpful, how does registration and straightness of image and large solids compare to the dc5000? I also have a xerox 700 which I've never been that happy with. (In so many areas) thanks again.

 

[joshlindsay]

Thanks Josh. This is very helpful, how does registration and straightness of image and large solids compare to the dc5000? I also have a xerox 700 which I've never been that happy with. (In so many areas) thanks again.

I've never used a 5000 but we did have an 8000 which I assume is similar.
In terms of print quality we saw a huge improvement in the 800 from the 700 and 8000.
The solids are generally good and you've got the clear toner to flood over if it needs it.

The registration on the 800 is great. Easy to centre on the sheet and seems to hold registration very well.

Registration on the Versant doesn't seem as good. We're getting a bit of movement on the sheets but worse than that the image is shrinking by 1mm.
Have spoken to Xerox and it is a known issue which is being looked at now. Hopefully it gets fixed soon.

 

[joshlindsay]

What'd you end up deciding Si?

 

[Yroc]

I don't know about Si, but we are installing a 1000 that is supposed to arrive Friday, just got a massage that it might not make it until next week. I'll try to remember to come back and post my experience. If it's quite for more than a couple weeks, post something and I'll get an email as I'm subscribed to this thread.

 

[BigSi]

What'd you end up deciding Si?

Hi Josh

Haven't done anything yet. Really need get rid of my old Dc5000 first.(need the room). I've got it on trade me if you know any one who might be interested?. I guess the main issue is the service contract (I doubt you would get one). But need to get some concrete pricing from Xerox before I decide to do anything. The way business has been going the last few years I should chuck it all in and buy a B&B in a scenic spot somewhere by the beach. Sounds tempting don't you think?

 

[Yroc]

Big machine, Small space...

 

[joshlindsay]

Hi Josh

Haven't done anything yet. Really need get rid of my old Dc5000 first.(need the room). I've got it on trade me if you know any one who might be interested?. I guess the main issue is the service contract (I doubt you would get one). But need to get some concrete pricing from Xerox before I decide to do anything. The way business has been going the last few years I should chuck it all in and buy a B&B in a scenic spot somewhere by the beach. Sounds tempting don't you think?

We ended up getting Xerox to take away the 8000. The prints we were getting weren't saleable in our market and parts were getting very tricky to find.

I know what you mean about the last few years. 2014 was pretty good for us and 2015 is looking great so far. Fingers crossed!!