Voice of the Employee

[Cory Smith]

 

[chevalier]

Story of my life.

 

[swcook6]

Unfortunate

Unfortunate

The people who plug away each day at the production level have some of the most useful ideas. By ignoring those ideas, management only hurts itself, not taking advantage of what could lead to cost savings and even new business ideas. Most of the time, the ego of the manager gets in the way of using someone else's suggestions, because they didn't come up with it. In today's economic climate, you better use every asset you have to improve or you may cease to exist as a company.

 

[SQCGuy]

Eliminate your ego as a manager and this problem goes away. You always have to consider that there is someone in your team who could do your job better than you do.

 

[gordo]

Eliminate your ego as a manager and this problem goes away. You always have to consider that there is someone in your team who could do your job better than you do.

Jobs are hard enough to find. Why would I hire someone who could do my job better than I?

Tongue planted firmly in cheek gordo

 

[HPC]

Make sure your people, the true assets of a company, feel empowered enough to make good decisions and offer suggestions. Way too often the people have great ideas, their supervisor kills the idea and who looses... management. Dear management, get out of your office, get out in that plant, see whats going on and talk to your people.

 

[otherthoughts]

First Rate!!

 

[Deleted member 16349]

What is power?

What is power?

The phrase " Knowledge is Power" is a clever way to distract employees and people in general. The idea that, if one comes up with good ideas based on some better knowledge, this can give one a path to succeed is a cruel hoax.

Knowledge is NOT Power. Power IS Power.

And the managers have the power and try to keep it and their interest is to not get crushed by someone higher up than they are, who has even more power.

The view is that reality can be manipulated if one has power. The goal is not to make improvements but to maintain ones own position in the power chain.

Since there is no real interest to make improvements that means any suggestion to try any particular idea to improve the company's position, means nothing. Logic and knowledge mean nothing in that situation.

Managers play these games but one should not think that it is always their choice. If one is a manager in a culture that forces them to act that way, they have to for their own survival. I have seen it often.

One should try to understand the political dynamics and work within its limitations to get ideas accepted. It can be done but one has to be careful and patient. Ideas won't be accepted because they are good but because they improve the power status of the managers.

Some managers are lucky enough to not have to work in that kind of culture.

 

[gordo]

[SNIP]
One should try to understand the political dynamics and work within its limitations to get ideas accepted. It can be done but one has to be careful and patient. Ideas won't be accepted because they are good but because they improve the power status of the managers.

Some managers are lucky enough to not have to work in that kind of culture.

I do agree with what you wrote (that I snipped for brevity) when you are in a top down hierarchical organization - which is, I think, how most print shops are organized.
The problem is that in the political dynamic you describe, there is no incentive to bring ideas forward for the good of the company. And if you bring up ideas that, as you put it "improve the power status of the managers" then you risk being isolated by your coworkers ("X sucks up to his boss").

I was very fortunate to have worked in a company (Creo) for 9 years that had an extremely flat organizational structure. Although that management style sometimes made decision making a challenge, since most were made by consensus, it made for an extremely dynamic, innovative culture, that enabled the company to grow very fast and bring industry changing products to the market.

best, gordo

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

You know what they say, people will reject "my idea" but feel more ready to accept "our idea". I don't have a quote on who said it, and I have a vague idea about some pun to express it. The art is expressing the problems that you want solved so that management needs to solve them, give them clues on how to solve them if you must

 

[BillJ]

If a employee has a great idea it goes nowhere.
If a consultant has the same idea it is brilliant.

 

[chevalier]

One should try to understand the political dynamics and work within its limitations to get ideas accepted.

Politics is where I get hung up. I have a total disdain for politics especially small scale politics (office v. plant, intra-office, etc.). I don't really give a damn about fluffing your ego, working around your emotions/feelings/insecurities or other things that seem like silliness and immaturity. That's not to say that I'm not apt to socially engineer ("sell") a situation to get what I need or want. I just don't understand why all this inefficiency and manipulation needs to come into play. If I were interested in doing this all the time I'd be in a sales role (and making much more money). Money doesn't motivate me anywhere near as much as the satisfaction of actually resolving problems. I've worked in both flat and steep hierarchal structures and ran into the same road blocks, those above me taking credit for my work, being doubted until a consultant says the same thing, and held back until the higher up gets his prize so that I can collect any crumbs left-over.

In all serious...how does a person like myself fit into this situation without constantly feeling frustrated? Should I just break out on my own and build what I think is most optimal?

 

[TheProcessIStheproduct]

Before I became "management", I was the same as you guys; thinking the front office did not do ***** and that management haplessly stumbled through the day overlooking all the things that are broken or could be done differently. This thinking has been around since the industrial revolution divided up tasks and created managers to link the different processes.

Question; can any of you bellyachers do the following: can you answer the phone, input an order, pre-flight and proof a job, impo and plate the job, print the job on press, cut it out, fold it, box it, and deliver it? I really doubt most if any of you could do that whole process start to finish, and even if you could, you would be lucky to do 1 job a day. But with division of labor, 5 people may do 25 jobs in a day.

So, even though the $12 an hour folder operator "thinks" he could run the show and do everything better, if he was manager for a day or a week, I would call in sick...

 

[BillJ]

Do the same type of things every day.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Politics is where I get hung up. I have a total disdain for politics especially small scale politics (office v. plant, intra-office, etc.). I don't really give a damn about fluffing your ego, working around your emotions/feelings/insecurities or other things that seem like silliness and immaturity. That's not to say that I'm not apt to socially engineer ("sell") a situation to get what I need or want. I just don't understand why all this inefficiency and manipulation needs to come into play. If I were interested in doing this all the time I'd be in a sales role (and making much more money). Money doesn't motivate me anywhere near as much as the satisfaction of actually resolving problems. I've worked in both flat and steep hierarchal structures and ran into the same road blocks, those above me taking credit for my work, being doubted until a consultant says the same thing, and held back until the higher up gets his prize so that I can collect any crumbs left-over.

In all serious...how does a person like myself fit into this situation without constantly feeling frustrated? Should I just break out on my own and build what I think is most optimal?

You have a wrong view that is preventing you from reaching some of your goals. You imply that politics is somehow bad. Politics is a tool and like any other tool it can be used with bad intent or with good intent.

If you want to avoid the need for politics, then you need to win a lottery and work on your own on things that do not need managers to manage you, consultants to annoy you and customers buy from you.

Normally we all have to work in groups and we also tend to like to work in groups but we all do not always know how to work in groups. Politics is a tool for working in groups in order to get your ideas moving forward.

Do some google searches on the subject and do some reading. People are complicated and one should not expect that just because you think you have good ideas, other people will drop all their emotional interests for what you want. Also there is also a chance that what you propose is not as good as you think. Working properly with other people helps determine if an idea is good and helps get to a better solution.

I read a book a very long time ago that explained the dynamics of "office politics". It was called,
Office Politics : Seizing Power Wielding Clout by Marilyn Moats Kennedy.

The book does not seem to be in print and for some reason seems to be expensive probably due to that fact. It was just an inexpensive paper back book when I originally read it. I am sure you can find something similar. It was a very good guide because it explained how one had to develop support for ideas.

Good luck.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Xerox PARC?

 

[maas]

In this current economic climate good jobs are hard to find, good managers are even harder to find. I recently turned down an oppertunity at a printing plant for the simple fact that in my current role i have a GM and a COO that completely and utterly justify their position and manage in a way that allows good people to achieve great things no matter what their position in the company.

regards
Maas