Wages...

[kdw75]

Having spent my entire life, since high school, working at my families small print shop I sometimes wonder what others are getting paid since I have no real experience anywhere else. We recently had a guy that had worked at another print shop since '74. A few years ago it was bought out by the largest print shop in the area and he had been running a 20x28 speedmaster as well as a smaller speedmaster that he had run for years before the buyout. He was making $20/hr. Then I have read people on here talk about making outlandish, in my opinion, wages of $30/hr and up.

So for someone who runs 4-color Printmaster 52 what is the going rate?

And do the people who say $30/hr is a decent wage count benefits and vacations in that wage or are they saying that is on top of the $30/hr?

 

[macphenom]

At my company. SM-52, CD-102's. Lead pressmen $26 an hour. That is the wage, it does not include the benefits. They can get up to 4 weeks vacation and get insurance on top of that wage. So off the top of my head if you include all wages and benefits you are in the $45.00 an hour area.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

You will likely need to compare the same general geographical location for an "apples to apples" comparison.


Stephen Marsh

 

[CBoyle83]

$44/hr plus vacation and benefits 1st pressman on XL-105.

 

[CathieHarris]

Damn, I'm being screwed! LOL

 

[Alith7]

oo ooo!!!
My boss just added "mailing department" to my stack of hats yesterday. Didn't come with a raise...
and.....the kicker..... WE HAVE A MAILING DEPARTMENT! Why is prepress handling mailing forms?!?!? -cries-

 

[onwsk8r]

kdw, I'm in KS and our operators make nowhere near that. I constantly have job applicants seeking $15-20/hr with long histories of operating.

Geographic area is a huge factor. When I bid on jobs on the coasts, I tend to double-ish my prices just to make them believable. I have an email in my inbox that says- and I quote- the boys from Kansas have done it again.

 

[vniehaus]

Who cares about wage? Clock watchers? The higher your wage the quicker you'll be looking for another job. Good luck on that. Better enjoy being a helper.

 

[CathieHarris]

In my area, the higher paid you are the more likely you are to be let go or changed to part time, especially with the health insurance situation. I'm happy to just be a nice little underpaid graphic designer/prepress for a small print shop. But who knows what will happen in 2014? My brother was also in prepress for a medium-sized shop here for about 5 years and was just let go so they could get someone in at a smaller wage and will probably skirt around the health insurance by making him/her work less than 30 hours. Such is life now.

 

[Alith7]

In my area, the higher paid you are the more likely you are to be let go or changed to part time, especially with the health insurance situation. I'm happy to just be a nice little underpaid graphic designer/prepress for a small print shop. But who knows what will happen in 2014? My brother was also in prepress for a medium-sized shop here for about 5 years and was just let go so they could get someone in at a smaller wage and will probably skirt around the health insurance by making him/her work less than 30 hours. Such is life now.

Thank you.... you just reminded my why this job is worth all the stress and hair pulling...
I think I must work for one of the LAST print shops that actually values their employees.... I have seen the owner skip his own pay check for a couple weeks instead of laying anyone off when we hit a dry spell. and we are "mid-sized". with 20 full time employees and a handful of part-time fill-in workers. Thank you.

 

[CathieHarris]

You're welcome, Alith. I'm glad I'm "older" because who knows how long this industry is going to keep us employed. Oh, and additionally, what really ticks me off - almost every mid- to large-sized corporation is now requiring graphic designers to have a degree.

They would prefer someone straight out of college, with no knowledge of real world experience, no knowledge of how to design for print (yes, there is still printing, peoples), and big design ideas. But someone like me (and I'm sure many others here) who have been doing this for over 30 years (straight out of high school) and have been around the block thousands of times are chopped liver. "No degree, sorry. We want someone with know-how, which equates to a Bachelor's." Well, like I said elsewhere...degree this!!!

They'll find out soon that no experience means no knowledge and the degree is practically worthless in this industry. Besides, in all honesty, they aren't even looking for a degree in art - you could have a degree in recreation and they would be chosen over those that don't have one at all. Amazing, really.

 

[onwsk8r]

Almost all companies value certain employees.
Think of it this way. I knew a guy that was old (and I mean OLD). Worked in bindery his whole life. Easily the guy that should have gotten fired a while ago. Whenever he ran the folder, by the time the job was done, the counter said "1". That's a valuable employee.
90% of the unemployed operators that I know are the operators that get the color "about" right and the yellow is "almost" in register. They can't understand why their companies never cared about them.

Your company cares for you about as much as you care about them. Not as much as you care about the paycheck, and not as much as you care about being gainfully employed, but as much as you care about the company itself.

If you're an operator, when was the last time you put yourself in the shoes of the person that's going to open the box? What will they see? How will it make them feel? I don't know about anyone else but my favorite part of the job is when a customer says WOW!

If you're in sales, do you just compete based on price? Good luck competing with GotPrint/Zoo Printing/etc. My goal with my customers is to make me the only logical choice, regardless of how much things cost. I have a friend who owns a limo company. You can see where this is going. I promise that GotPrint never took a customer out in a limo.

So I guess what I'm saying is that as the average consumer becomes much more picky and demands much more out of a vendor, the average employer must also become much more picky and demand much more out of an employee. Are you just an employee or are you part of the family?

 

[CathieHarris]

Well said onwsk8r. I am part of the family here. When I was hired, my boss said that he refuses to have stress in his shop. I've had three spine surgeries and can't lift, so anyone here will lift for me if needed. I give him great customer service, as I've always believed that you treat every customer as if they're you're favorite. I also give him great design and prepress. And yes, I get goose bumps when I show a customer a design and they say "Wow!".

It's also important that he can count on me being here every day. We only have one prepress person, me, so I want him to know that I'll be here every day unless I'm on my death bed. And I'll stay late to help a customer if needed without complaint.

You've hit the nail on the head as far as taking care of your company like it's your own, and treating the owner and company with the respect it deserves. I also have a boss who doesn't take a paycheck sometimes, but I always get mine. Nice post.

 

[Alith7]

Cathie~
I had someone tell me once that the reason soo many companies are insisting on a "piece of paper", is because they got one, and they want to have other people around them who jumped through the same pointless hoops to justify to themselves that that little piece of paper actually had meaning...

The flip side of that is what I see in our copy centers...I'm not in charge of those (thank Gods!), and the one who is in charge of hiring keeps looking at the local art schools and trade(supposed) schools for her staff...the level of quality together with the turnover rate of her staff amazes me... Or I should say, it really doesn't. I don't bother learning names until they've been at least 3 months... generally, there's no point.

onwsk8r~
that applies sometimes...but I'm seeing a larger trend in the industry, a VERY disturbing one. The software developers are selling on this concept: "yes, our software will cost you $100,000 for initial purchase, plus $20,000 in setup and install, plus $15,000 a year in fees. But look at these numbers! For that investment, you can eliminate 3 WHOLE salaries from your payroll." I'm not kidding. I was at the print conference a few years ago and went to the Executive Outlook all day session. This is a whole session geared towards Owners, Upper Management, general decision makers. Over half the room was watching presentation after presentation singing the same tune and nodding along.

Employees are clock punchers and numbers on a balance sheet these days. Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE believer of the thought that you are only as valuable as you make yourself. But for a lot of companies, it doesn't matter. The bottom dollar is more important to them. Which is also why they are dropping like flies. and the "big boys" who have the clout to say "This is how we print, you don't like it, tough s**t" are dictating this.

 

[kansasquaker]

To answers OP's original question, I looked it up in the PIA Wage Survey 2012. Press Operator, Sheetfed, 20" to 28" 4-6 colors, Kansas City Metro area: 16 responses - Average $26.20, Low $20.10, Median $25.23, High $31.95. Incidentally, 40" press operators are only paid about $1 per hour more than the above.

Alith-
I'm sure what you say about "numbers on a balance sheet" is true in a number of companies, especially the Donnellys and Quads of the world, but there's another side to story. I sit on both sides of the desk here so I see it a bit differently. If an employee has been in this (or any) industry for a couple years and haven't improved themselves to the point that they can't be replaced by software or a machine, then they probably SHOULD be replaced if it's cost effective. I don't want to work with people who want to sit at Mac doing impos for the next 20 years. For heaven's sake learn something new! If you're good at your job and have a variety of skills, nobody is going to be thinking about replacing you with automation.

So that caring relationship has to be reciprocal. Employees who better themselves to also better the company and companies who help better employees to better the company. If either side fails in that equation, or that mutual respect doesn't exist, then it's time for a change.

 

[chad.trent]

My wife is in human resources for a local hospital that employes somewhere in the neighborhood of 10k people. The whole thing about degrees is a hot button issue. What it comes down to for them is that for every open position they post, they will receive 20-50 applications. Sometimes more. They have to have some way to filter them down, so the first thing they do is immediately discard any applicant without a degree. Fair? No. But that's how it works.

As someone who was recently unemployed (and without a degree) I can tell you that these days, unless you know the right people, you can't even get an interview without a degree. I have 24 years experience as an in-house designer and prepress manager. I also have a portfolio I'd put up against anyone holding a MFA. Does that matter? Nope. Over and over again I was told "Sorry, this job requires a degree". When I asked why, they said "because it does" or something to that effect.

I even got into a discussion with one of them and asked them what a degree would teach me that I don't already know. And, if I had pursued my degree right out of high school, I would have received it in 1995. How much different is the graphic arts world today than it was in 1995? And, I also explained to them that in college the students receive nice little projects that they work on a few hours here and there, and try to balance their other activities with it. I work 5,6 and sometimes 7 days a week at my job. Often 10+ hours a day. And I deal with all the problem files and fix all the issues that freshly-graduated "designers" put into their files. "What, you mean I can't have a gradient from one spot color to another and have it print correctly?" That was an issue I had to explain to a designer this week. He is in his first year at a design agency making $15k a year more than me. I interviewed for the job he got. Guess what I was told?

So now I'm in school working on my degree. I'm taking classes that familiarize myself with the Macintosh operating system and learning the difference between raster and vector files...

 

[kansasquaker]

What terrible decision making! Who is setting these hiring requirements? Have they worked in production or talked to someone who has? A degree is worth maybe 1-3 years experience. A while back I amazed a newly degreed coworker by switching between the selection and direct selection tools in illy with the a and v keys. I'm thinking to myself Really? Shouldn't hot keys be its own course in graphic design? And why haven't you spent enough time with these apps to discover this anyway? I can't imagine what they actually spent their time doing . . .

 

[CathieHarris]

I agree with all of the above. Oddly, my state doesn't require a degree and takes "or equivalent experience" and every job I've applied for I've gotten an interview. (Damn, though, I've never gotten the jobs! I think I suck at interviewing, especially when I REALLY want the job. But that's for another time...)

I thoroughly understand needing a degree to be a nurse, therapist, lawyer, etc. But in all honesty, my SIL is a head judge in a tiny town in Arizona and she doesn't have a degree. Can you believe that?

I believe that it's just plain stupid to require a degree for graphic design and/or prepress. It's a craft and you can't teach all the nuances of this trade. You learn so much more with hands-on experience - example the hot keys above. There's so much you just can't teach to people in this field. I mean really, when you think about it, how many little bits of knowledge do you carry around in your head? I mean so much stuff that you'd probably forget to teach some of it if you were a teacher?

Oh, you got me started. This is such a hot button topic for me. I've been battling getting an Associates, but then I wonder why? I'm not sure I want to work for someone who doesn't understand the value of what I have done for so long without needing a degree, I would do it just to get more money. And I'm kind of tired of the corporate life.

 

[PrintingFocus]

I know what I had to do over 20+ years to become a Print/Design Manager.

Learn every aspect of every persons job in the print room / design studio.

I am from the UK and during Maggie T's era, I was on £35 Per Week at the age of 17!

In that 2 year spell I had been taught to operate several different printing presses from a single colour A4 Gestetner, Kord 64, Ryobi, Platen, Guillotine, Folding Machines, Stitching, Hand Finishing, Machine Finishing etc etc.

After 20 years, I have been a No.1 op on many 1 / 2/ 4 / 8/ and 10 colour A4 / S3 / S2 / B2 / B1 machines including Ryobi, Heidleberg and many others (think my CV has almost 20 different press machine makes on it).

Spent 2 years runnning folding machines that linked many together to fold, score, perf, trim, cut a B1 sheet and produce a final CD cover, all in one pass!

Fully conversant with all Adobe Software.

Very good programmer in PHP, CSS, HTML, JQUERY etc.

I would be very hard pressed to get £15 - £20 per hour doing what I do now, which is a Print & Design Supervisor, which is way more than I ever got for the first 15 years of my print career.

I am fortunate in that I have an OK paid job in an industry that I love.

Also, fortunate enough to have learned everything I have done from Pressmen, Print Finishers etc over the years to now own and run my own print biz alongside my day job.

Plus, I have the added benefit of being at the top of my game when it comes to commerical print design (as this is another biz I run when I get home).

Knowing the print industry has also allowed me to launch one of the top dedicated online printing directories in the UK.

The print trade has served me well. Enjoyed it and still doing so. Never was on a high pay packet but I have always had a job, more than I can say for most of my friends that have been in and out of work most of their life in other trades.

As you have been in the same job since you left school and in a family run business - it would be interesting to see how you fair amongst other print operatives that may well have had far better training due to using many different machines over the years and for different employers with different standards and practices....

I have worked for many print companies including Minuteman Press and other small franchise print shops, right up to some of the largest world recognised print organisations.

Mark.