What is wrong with Roland R300?

[Nutech Shroff]

We are a Mitsubishi Shop - Diamond 3000 LS. We are looking for a used 5 color plus coater 29" Press (20" by 29" Press) - since Mitsubishi does not make 29" but 28" Press - we are looking for other options.

I have been offered Many Roland 300's and find that the price of a Roland 300 to be about half or less of that of a similar Heidelberg or KBA of the same age - hence my question " What is wrong with the R300"? Would like other user's experience with the machine.

 

[akiyama_king]

my opinion on them is that they ar every well built, reliable and fast machines. I have noticed makeready times are quite fast on them you have quite a good plate loading system and the feed as i have found is actually no too bad (once you get to know it)

Tha bad things are people say they were plagued with electrial faults i have found this not to be the case on the one i now run, the computer system takes a while to get used to but once you are used to it it is actually quite simple. and the Gears are lubed with a Liquid Grease Rather than Oil which can be a little pricey but even then its not ridicuously ver priced.

all in all quite a good press in my opinion and mechanically are sound and for the price difference i would actually consider it very highly because for the money you wont find another press half as good.

Can i ask were you are located?

 

[Nutech Shroff]

Thanks for your feedback. My concerns on the machine are

1. The machine I am considering has Double Perfection - where as I plan to print straight always - how much problem do the perfection cylinders create while printing straight

2. Electronics - I have heard the machine has trouble some Electronics - may I ask what age/Series/config machine are you running? Was it bought new or as a used press?

3. Transfers - Unlike the my Mitsubishi and the newer Rolands (500 and 700) and most other machine - which have a double impression - double transfer - this machine has a since impression and triple transfer drums in between (single/double/single transfer) - making more paper tranfers and hence more chances of markings. Not sure how much of an issue this is since Heidelberg till day uses the design on SM machines. I plan to print from 90 gsm to 350 gsm.

Honestly - the low price on these machine makes me wonder what makes them sell for so less - any clue?

I am based out of New Delhi, India.

 

[akiyama_king]

Hi

The press i run is a 5 colour also with double perfector. TBH i have absolutly no trouble with misregister or marking at the perfector which i thought i would have but dont. Ours is a 1996 bought secondhand

when we bought ours everybody said the machine will have alot of electrical problems, they said the machine will be idle with trouble more than it was running but this is a load of rubbish and i have not had any major electrical breakdowns.

With the transfers and the imp cyl configuration you are correct their is more of a marking risk but i dont see much problems, but you must keep all the transfers clean in order to keep this the case, and as with the elcitrical issue i was worried about this but i have yet to notice any marking . we tend to print 115g all the way upto 400 g with no trouble.

I think the reason the price is so low is because of the issue that they at some point got a bad reputation for the electrics, and i have not run this press for an incredible ammount of time so maybe i am missing something that a more experienced operator on this forum may pick up on (weres albert when you need him )
i also ran an early 1995 R700 for a couple of yrs and again no major electrical problems...

What year machine are you actually looking for

 

[Nutech Shroff]

Thanks Again.

How long have you had the press and during this period what problems have you faced mechanical/electrical? Also besides the Rolands what other presses do have experience with and how do you compare Rolands with them?

The press I am considering is a 6 color plus coater. Was offered to me as a 1999 press but the serial number and series corresponds to a 1995/1996 or so - still waiting for Roland to confirm. Series 323 - 264XX-B - how does this compare to your machine?

I spoke to an ex-engineer of Roland - who honestly didnt know much about a 300 but said machines from around the time 300 was developed had major electrical issues - so avoid. Till the 500 came around some years back 300 was the machine Roland was promoting - I am sure it would have been a decent machine to have been sold for over 10 years.

Where are you located.....?

 

[akiyama_king]

Thanks Again.

How long have you had the press and during this period what problems have you faced mechanical/electrical? Also besides the Rolands what other presses do have experience with and how do you compare Rolands with them?

The press I am considering is a 6 color plus coater. Was offered to me as a 1999 press but the serial number and series corresponds to a 1995/1996 or so - still waiting for Roland to confirm. Series 323 - 264XX-B - how does this compare to your machine?

I spoke to an ex-engineer of Roland - who honestly didnt know much about a 300 but said machines from around the time 300 was developed had major electrical issues - so avoid. Till the 500 came around some years back 300 was the machine Roland was promoting - I am sure it would have been a decent machine to have been sold for over 10 years.

Where are you located.....?

Hi, Is this machine a 6 colour with unit one out of operation?

We have only had the machine 6 months, i have not had one mechanical breakdown yet, and the only electrical breakdown i have was the motor for the ink duct roller had stopped working and we replaced it as i had a spare. I have run a 1995 roland 700 for 3 yrs and to be honest the machine was very good and i was incredibly happy with it.

I am unsure about the series number of my machine but usually theirs a badge on the delivery which says the yr of the press.

I have run akiyama, good machine but needs alot of taking care of, Roland favorit never breaks down but a very difficult press to run, heidelberg mo again bad machine to run, and rolad 700 and 300

I am located in the UK

 

[Nutech Shroff]

Ya - Its the same machine - the first unit has some electrical problem - I am told its Minor and they can have it fixed. Do you know this press?

Besides this I have also been offered some other 300's but I thought of checking on the 300 before investing more time on them.

One breakdown in 6 months -Thats not bad - on a press which is almost 13-14 years old.

I have asked them to provide me with a picture of the badge - since the serial number is not corresponding to the age indicated by them.

I also have Akiyama Bestech 240 - I think they are nice machines - but I am proud of my Mitsubishi Diamonds. Just curious how they never get mentioned on the forums. Do you know much about them?

 

[akiyama_king]

Ya - Its the same machine - the first unit has some electrical problem - I am told its Minor and they can have it fixed. Do you know this press?

Besides this I have also been offered some other 300's but I thought of checking on the 300 before investing more time on them.

One breakdown in 6 months -Thats not bad - on a press which is almost 13-14 years old.

I have asked them to provide me with a picture of the badge - since the serial number is not corresponding to the age indicated by them.

I also have Akiyama Bestech 240 - I think they are nice machines - but I am proud of my Mitsubishi Diamonds. Just curious how they never get mentioned on the forums. Do you know much about them?

to be honest i know nothing about mitsubishi but the plate clamps on the akiyama make the machine incredibly easy to run. I think you should seriously consider the 300 as its a very good machine in my opinion. i did know that this machine was for sale but dont know it personally.
may i ask how much they offered the press to you for?

would you consider a 6 colour with no coater and single perfector ?

 

[Nutech Shroff]

Hi Again,

The machine is being offered quite cheap - dont know exactly but around a 100,000 USD or so. If it were just this 300 being sold for cheap I wouldnt have put up a post but there are atleast 3-4 presses that I know are on sale at the moment and all cheaper than any other machine of the same age.

Tell me more about the 6 color you are talking about - what age is that - I really am looking for a younger press.

 

[akiyama_king]

Hi Again,

The machine is being offered quite cheap - dont know exactly but around a 100,000 USD or so. If it were just this 300 being sold for cheap I wouldnt have put up a post but there are atleast 3-4 presses that I know are on sale at the moment and all cheaper than any other machine of the same age.

Tell me more about the 6 color you are talking about - what age is that - I really am looking for a younger press.

Hi

I would have to check with my friend if it is still available mine is a 1996, price would be around 65,000 gbpounds, it has CPL Plate loading single perfector.
do you have a perosal email i can contact you on ?

 

[andreisarbu]

R300

R300

To be honest in my opinion R300 is a total failure for Man. 500 and 700 are great machines, I've had a 500 and run it like hell without major issues except electrical part where I've had some troubles. R300 is for below the other presses from Roland taking in consideration not only automatization and performance but reliability. I would have a look at a 500 instead of 300....

Good luck.

Andrei

 

[akiyama_king]

To be honest in my opinion R300 is a total failure for Man. 500 and 700 are great machines, I've had a 500 and run it like hell without major issues except electrical part where I've had some troubles. R300 is for below the other presses from Roland taking in consideration not only automatization and performance but reliability. I would have a look at a 500 instead of 300....

Good luck.

Andrei

this is very different to what i have expeienced, maybe as i said before it is because ive been running 6 months only or maybe you were unlucky. But just one point you mention the lack of automation could you elaborate on that as i thought for the yr they actually had quite good automation.

 

[JOHNYPRINT]

buying a roland

buying a roland

Hi Nutech shroff
I have been reading your threads regarding your questions about rlond machines. I am curretly running a roland 700 6colour with a perfector 1997. the roland is a good machine but we do have issues with electrical problems but i have been told that later models are better . We also have the system called "PPL" wich is a semi automatic plate changeing system, this is very temperamental but when working well and kept clean is very quick. The main piont i would say to you is if you are not going to print in perfect dont get a perfector press, it is a very technical drum and if it goes wrong can be very costly. I would also be very wary of people who say that a machine has no problems then have a mchine they would like to sell you. I have run hiedelbergs for most of my 21years in print and they are bulletproof. regards johnyprint

 

[akiyama_king]

Hi Nutech shroff
I have been reading your threads regarding your questions about rlond machines. I am curretly running a roland 700 6colour with a perfector 1997. the roland is a good machine but we do have issues with electrical problems but i have been told that later models are better . We also have the system called "PPL" wich is a semi automatic plate changeing system, this is very temperamental but when working well and kept clean is very quick. The main piont i would say to you is if you are not going to print in perfect dont get a perfector press, it is a very technical drum and if it goes wrong can be very costly. I would also be very wary of people who say that a machine has no problems then have a mchine they would like to sell you. I have run hiedelbergs for most of my 21years in print and they are bulletproof. regards johnyprint

Firstly i offered him the machine as i knew he was looking for one and i knew a freind fo mine has one, im a printer not dealer, secondly 300's dont have ppl they have cpl thirdly you cant find 300's without perfectors they are built with perfectors as standard.

What kind of electrical problems do you get just out of intrest?

 

[JOHNYPRINT]

Hi akiyama king
appologies if i got the wrong impression. I dont know anything about the 300 range,but i was trying to give nutech shroff an insight into the issues we have encountered on our press, i still feel that if he only wants to print in straight print then the 300 is not the press he should be looking at as you say they all have perfecting capabilities. no offence intended i just feel that that was a relevant point to make. regards johnyprint

 

[akiyama_king]

Hi akiyama king
appologies if i got the wrong impression. I dont know anything about the 300 range,but i was trying to give nutech shroff an insight into the issues we have encountered on our press, i still feel that if he only wants to print in straight print then the 300 is not the press he should be looking at as you say they all have perfecting capabilities. no offence intended i just feel that that was a relevant point to make. regards johnyprint

No worries i ddint get offended.

But id like to get an idea of what kind of electrical errors you get ony your 700. the one i ran was older than yours it was a 1995 vintage with the older style ppl but the only main problems we got electrically was motors seizing up and contactors getting spray in them and causing us trouble, which to be honest did suprize me because most people siad what you did, their plagued with electrical problems.

 

[JOHNYPRINT]

Roland 700

Roland 700

Hi akiyama king
little niggles have been the problem, in straight print occasionally the machine will stop dead with an error with the perfector. A problem that is a real pain is the delivery pile hieght sensor does two drops in quick successin which cuts the feeder out, we have tried all sorts of things; adjusting, changeing, cleaning, moving it, it goes away for a day or two then happens four or five times in an hour, very frustrating. It seems like a very advanced machine for its day but is very sensitive. looked good when it was new. I have been told that lots of things are on the same circuit and if you get a problem with one thing it will affect the other things on the same circuit like ink duct motors.
I have also posted another issue regarding a double we are getting, this is a mechanichal issue and i would be interested if you have any view on that, or if you have conversed with anybody who might be able to point me in the right direction. have a look for the post "roland 700 drive side double". regards johnyprint

 

[akiyama_king]

Hi akiyama king
little niggles have been the problem, in straight print occasionally the machine will stop dead with an error with the perfector. A problem that is a real pain is the delivery pile hieght sensor does two drops in quick successin which cuts the feeder out, we have tried all sorts of things; adjusting, changeing, cleaning, moving it, it goes away for a day or two then happens four or five times in an hour, very frustrating. It seems like a very advanced machine for its day but is very sensitive. looked good when it was new. I have been told that lots of things are on the same circuit and if you get a problem with one thing it will affect the other things on the same circuit like ink duct motors.
I have also posted another issue regarding a double we are getting, this is a mechanichal issue and i would be interested if you have any view on that, or if you have conversed with anybody who might be able to point me in the right direction. have a look for the post "roland 700 drive side double". regards johnyprint

i know what you mean about things being on the same circuit, when you have a problem with one hting their on the same loop on the fibre optic so it says theirs a problem with something else aswell .
ill post something about your problem in the your thread

 

[Nutech Shroff]

Thanks for your inputs - decided not to go for a Roland 300 after all. I had a Roland 100 once (about 10 years back) and how I remember we used to spend more time trying to fix the machine and less time running it - I dont think I wanna relive those days.

 

[jbeniston]

Late response to your question sorry. The R300 is not made anymore, which might explain why it's cheap. The latest series 300 would run at 16000, but the technology has been surpassed now. Electrical problems can happen especially if regular maintenace has not been carried out. Inside the panels of the operator side of each unit the cables inside and lowdown, can become oil soaked and hard, this can make them crack when the doors are opened. The perfector(s) were the best and remain so(my opinion) in the world.
Originally the machine started out as a Miller. When this company was absorbed into Manroland it was extensively modernised to comply with Rolands technology. Electronics, inking, dampening were all part of the new package.
I always found the machine to print very sharp.
Sheet transfer is positive but a bit old fashioned with all those transfer points and cylinders.
If your machine has CPL (semi auto plate changing) make sure that the plate packing is in good shape. It should be shiny and smooth. If it is seriously scratched and dull it will cause problems getting "fit" and aligning to "zero". The reason being the plates cannot 'slide" over the dull packing and will hang up.