What would make a good Entry level 4 color

[jotterpinky]

We are currently a small commercial shop with two offset presses (1 color with t-head). We currently do all our 4-color on a Xerox 700 digital printer but are finding it hard to compete on many of the bids we are getting for longer run lengths of 4 color (over 5K). I'm tentatively looking for a 4-color offset press to fulfill this need. Our pressman has little to no experience with printing 4-color jobs but informed me that we should consider something with an aqueous coater if we plan on doing 4-color, is this true?

I've looked at the Ryobi 3304 but it's max image size is only 17.2" and I don't think that's adequate. I'm looking for something that will at least do two 8.5x11's with bleeds and color bars. I've also been told that some of the older DI presses would be good as entry-level presses due to our pressman's lack of skill in this area, but I've also heard they are $80 to plate (yikes!!)

In addition I thought we would upgrade our outdated platemaking process, we have an old Panther imagesetter we run film on, process, and burn to metal plates. I've looked at some of Xante's lineup which looks good on price but I'm concerned about it's ability to image the quality we would like. I wouldn't want to do anything less than 200 lpi if we are going to spend the money.

Does anyone have any recommendations on a press and CTP system that would be ideal for entry-level?

 

[rbailleu]

we hade a nice 2 color sm52. the place we bought it from had a dpm or dpx not sure but it punched for the sm52. they ran some 4 color. it was auto plate and worked quite well. 2 passes but a good start. certainly you could compete in the 1000 to 10000 range.

 

[Al Ferrari]

Is that $80 for the four plates? That seems cheap to me considering there is no film or stripping and the plates are in perfect register at the end of the imaging process.

Al

 

[Ritter]

In my experience DI is just too sensitive and breaks thus making it very expensive to maintain. It's a grand idea just not rugged enough for the pressroom. I worked at a shop for a short period where a 5c DI press was used without the DI because the imaging units were simply too expensive to maintain and the management bought a HDM Prosetter. If you see serious growth potential I'd look for a refurbished or repossessed SM74 or a similar half-sized press. The 52 and presses of similar sizes are very limiting in size and format and many times isn't any more competitive than a digital device similar to yours. They are also somewhat fickle because of the roller train being tiny and compressed. For CtP I would also look into the refurbished or repossessed market, the economy is bad and hardly used good equipment is sitting around. Bob Weber (bob-weber.com) is a good resource for used prepress equipment.

 

[BWeaver]

Color bars are nice to use, but when you rely on them to much you lose out on the skill of printing. One place I worked at we had to go by the color bars no matter what the image looked like and how different stocks can affect the visual image. It also took away ability to learn when to adjust the ink keys vs when to adjust the ductor speed. You would just set up to hit the color bars without really learning or knowing anything or why your doing it that way.

Color bars help but don't rely on them to much, especially when your densitometer breaks down.

It has become a sad time when simple AB Dick's take more skill to run (with less pay) then these new presses where everything is preset for you.

DI's?? While I never have ran them myself, in my building I work by two that have pretty much been abandoned. Slow and expensive from what I understand, but then again maybe it is good for a first press.

Also maybe it is just the place I work at but it is funny to me when I see that a large run consists of an order over 5,000. My Halm jet envelope master does that with flat envelopes in a few minutes, and since we have to run letterheads on this envelope press we usually get that done in maybe 30-50 min, one with bleeds and no color bars. When we use thermo with the Halm, takes more time. Heidelberg speedmasters I have seen run 2up LH better quality with color bars and a lot faster, maybe to expensive for a first press though.

Brent W.

 

[banjoman]

DI

DI

I've been running a PTEK DI 34 for 18 months and it is great, I have had very few problems and it is fast and amazing BUT you have to keep up with maintenance. It's waterless and ours works well, prints well and is quite easy to operate. About 40 dollars for a set of plates and they are 1 time use, there is no manual setting register or any of that, I punch a button, load paper and ink and it does all the rest and does it very well. They are a little expensive, but not compared to a traditional machine, ours was cheaper than a 4 color and a platesetter so you have to look at your work, run lengths, turnaround and all that to see if it fits.

banjoman

 

[Leo Caproni]

What four color press to buy

What four color press to buy

Hi Jotterpinky,
Since i don't know what part of the USA (I'm guessing here) your printing company is located, it is difficult to steer you in any one direction because of the after sales service support is an important part of any equipment acquisition. Ryobi is a great product and a good used four color 524HX, HXX, HE or GX will do you just fine. If you have the budget go for a HXX, HE or GX as they have more automation and that is where you make more money by having shorter make ready times. If you can afford the Ryobi IVS system, it takes a lot of the guesswork out of getting to color fast and easily for a novice four color pressman and will reduce your makeready waste to almost nothing. Take a look at Print&Finishing Solutions where I work and their used equipment for great buys and after sales service support. I would stay away from the Di presses as they are quickly becoming dinosaurs. Heidelberg stopped producing theirs a few years ago and although the Ryobi DI (aka Presstek DI) is pretty much bulletproof, it limits you to one or two plate sources and the fact that the temperature control system is supposed to run 24/7 to keep the lasers at optimum operating temperature which costs money and wastes energy. Buy a conventional press whose value will be higher when it comes time to sell or trade the equipment. In regards, to a CtP, a good used polyester plate maker will work well if you have semi-automatic plate changing. If the plate clamps are manual, get a metal CtP from Xante who bought Rip-it a few years ago and who have a great little two up metal platesetter.

 

[billy gold coast]

jotterpinky gday ive been printing on large format presses for over 20 years id say that aqueous has had its day.. if you can go for a 5 or 6 color.. look at what service is avaidable in your area for diff brands of press.. anything secondhand can have its problems new as possible is your best bet and larger presses can handle smaller sizes..ctp is the way to go your plate supplier should be able to set you up pay as you go..sounds like your printer might need a bit of training as well good luck

 

[hato]

just to clarify,The Presstek Di' s cooling system does not have to run 24/7 as stated by Leo Caproni.It is switched on and off with the press as you would a conventional press.There is a lot of 'mis-information' about Di technology.In simple terms the DI is a conventional press with a Cpt build on to it.It is a waterless press which works brilliantly.It uses no chemicals when making plates or while printing,and a lot of users use soya based inks.So it is the most envoirnmentaly friendly way to produce the higest quality print (300LPI and f/m screening as standard.)It will take the widest variety of stocks including plastics.Both DI models are built by Ryobi and are excellently engineered.There are many more benefits,but the best way to be convinced is to go and see one in operation.

 

[billys]

Hello
We made the move to CMYK 4 colour at low investment cost 3 years back with used Purup Eskofot DPX CPT and a Ryobi 512 with envertron chilled damping. This press is lanscape with a stream feeeder the results are;
Excelent for all cymyk work , but requires 2 pass's for each side.
High quality solids again because of landscape format.
Our next move would be to 3304 but would retain the 512 as I understand registration is not as good with portrait and the plastic plates from the DPX. If your press guy can print OK with 2 colour, then forget about DI press's. Parts and service are expensive and definatly the Hieldberg DI is lower quality image than our KIT. I think the 512 will do 2 x A4 with bleed and colour bars. Our press is up and running in 20 minutes and we offer Xerox or Oce digital prints to get our customers of the starting gate.
Les S

We are currently a small commercial shop with two offset presses (1 color with t-head). We currently do all our 4-color on a Xerox 700 digital printer but are finding it hard to compete on many of the bids we are getting for longer run lengths of 4 color (over 5K). I'm tentatively looking for a 4-color offset press to fulfill this need. Our pressman has little to no experience with printing 4-color jobs but informed me that we should consider something with an aqueous coater if we plan on doing 4-color, is this true?

I've looked at the Ryobi 3304 but it's max image size is only 17.2" and I don't think that's adequate. I'm looking for something that will at least do two 8.5x11's with bleeds and color bars. I've also been told that some of the older DI presses would be good as entry-level presses due to our pressman's lack of skill in this area, but I've also heard they are $80 to plate (yikes!!)

In addition I thought we would upgrade our outdated platemaking process, we have an old Panther imagesetter we run film on, process, and burn to metal plates. I've looked at some of Xante's lineup which looks good on price but I'm concerned about it's ability to image the quality we would like. I wouldn't want to do anything less than 200 lpi if we are going to spend the money.

Does anyone have any recommendations on a press and CTP system that would be ideal for entry-level?