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What's PMS 173?

gordo

Well-known member
I'm trying to confirm the correct CMYK simulation of PMS 173.
My PShop has it at: PMS 173 = Cyan: 0%, Magenta: 69%, Yellow: 100%, Black: 6%.
My Illustrator has it at: PMS 173 = Cyan: 0%, Magenta: 82%, Yellow: 94%, Black: 2%.

What is the correct, or official, CMYK simulation?

best, gordo
 
I'm trying to confirm the correct CMYK simulation of PMS 173.
My PShop has it at: PMS 173 = Cyan: 0%, Magenta: 69%, Yellow: 100%, Black: 6%.
My Illustrator has it at: PMS 173 = Cyan: 0%, Magenta: 82%, Yellow: 94%, Black: 2%.

What is the correct, or official, CMYK simulation?

best, gordo

According to Adobe, I would think Illustrator is right. PANTONE colors don't match in Illustrator and Photoshop

However, looking around online I found varying values:

11 86 98 2
0 80 94 1

I also found out thats the PMS equivalent of the Golden Gate Bridge, and the bridge specs say 0 69 100 6

I don't have a swatch book handy right now to look at. Maybe someone else does.
 
Gordo, is this a trick question? It depends on the Pantone library being referenced.

Pantone Solid Coated = converts from the library L*a*b* colour values through your CMS and various conversion options to your CMYK working space profile. The final values will vary depending on the conversion settings and output space which will also vary with GCR values etc. If your CMYK working space profile is "accurate" for the final print condition, then you may get "better" results for in-gamut colours using this approach. There are no fixed CMYK values in this library, it all depends on the conversion. Obviously, if the Pantone in question is out of gamut for your CMYK print condition - then it comes down to artistic licence. The L*a*b* values for Pantone 173 C in CS5 are 52L* 55A* 49B*. Would this be the same/similar L*a*b* value if one measured a brand new Pantone swatch book? What if your paper had a different white point to the Pantone swatch book? Should/would you go by Pantone values or adjust them taking your stock values into account? Or perhaps split the difference?

Pantone Solid to Process = this has fixed CMYK values, as found in the Solid to Process swatch book. The fixed values for Pantone 173 C from in my CS5 are 0/69/100/4. Whether or not these numbers are good for your printing condition is questionable (what is your printing condition, chances are it is not the same as the Pantone swatch book). Pantone Solid to Process values are what the industry traditionally used, even if the final print condition was not even close to the Pantone swatch book conditions! Many like to quote the values as gospel, they feel safe as the values are published by Pantone and if there are arguments with clients they can say they followed standard values...even if these values are wrong for the print condition at hand!

The "best" or perhaps idealistic answer that I can give is to try to get as close to the L*a*b* values in your CMYK space as you can (within reason, you obviously need a good CMYK profile). This is of course profile/device dependent and the CMYK numbers for ISO Coated are different to say ISO Newsprint. As one can make the target L*a*b* values using different ratios of CMY to K, one has a lot of leeway with how one may mix certain CMYK colours to hit the same L*a*b* values, so there is no single correct answer, in my opinion.

If I recall correctly, this library change took place back in Photoshop 7 or CS. Before this change, there were only Solid to Process library files. One has to be careful whether one selects from the Solid Coated or Solid to Process library in the various creative suite apps. Adobe licence the Pantone library files, and the same library should match in each Creative Suite application. Obviously Pantone change/update their L*a*b* values over time, so Photoshop 7 L*a*b* values may not match CS5 values - even though both reference the same Pantone colour number.

Adobe "only" display simplified integer L*a*b* values for Pantone Colours (sometimes called ICC L*a*b* values?). Other software, such as found in proofing RIPs tend to licence/use more "accurate" values that are not rounded off (CIE L*a*b* values). It probably does not really matter, a*=66 may be hard to compare to a*=66.426!


Regards,

Stephen Marsh
 
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Coated? are we assuming that? Here are the bridge values and my comments. (the actual colour is surprisingly similar on coated and uncoated)
Pantone Bridge (+) coated says 0 82 94 2 (but I'd probably have found my own mix here i could replace Black with Cyan)
Pantone Bridge (+) UNcoated says 0 71 94 4 (but I think it's too red and again prefer 6 cyan to 4 black but would probably guess 100 Y)
 
according to my old dusty and faded pantone process color imaging guide circa 1992 the values are:
c-0 m-69 y-100 k-6
 
Gordo,

The CIElab values in the "PANTONE solid coated" libraries shipping with CS5 are L* 52 a* 55 b* 49.

Pantone replaced the Pantone Matching System with Pantone Plus, using the same 14 mixing base inks (+ transparent white). They also made 566 new colors.

If you were to download the Pantone Plus CIElab libraries from Pantone.com, then you would find that the latest CIElab values for PMS 173 are L*51 a*55 b*53, which is about dE76 4 difference.

Some colors stayed the same and others changed to varying degrees.

I think a more appropriate question might have been "What color is PMS 173 on this 117th day of the year, Wednesday, April, 2011?"

When the printing process encompasses the gamut of the PMS target then an absolute colormetric conversion from the lab values to cmyk will be your best bet. If the PMS is out of gamut then it is up to the end user to find the lowest deltaE possible. My go-to preference is to try to preserve the hue angle but it is possible in some situations that saturation or lightness preservation could subjectively be considered more important.

I do not yet know the latest official cmyk values for PMS 173 but I hope they are in alignment with popular sheetfed or web print specifications. I have measured CMYK mixes in uncoated solid to process guides that are out of gamut from Fogra47. It is my opinion that the expectation setting, spawned by Pantone’s CMYK values and correlative swatch books, in the minds of graphic designers can at times be a disservice to the printing house.

To match 173 in Gracol I would use 0c 82m 100y k5. Expect 1.5 dE with the majority of the error being in saturation. I came up with these numbers by twiddling with Photoshop's color picker.

- Matt Louis
 
Totally depends on the output conditions, and the specific Pantone color being referenced.

Pantone solid coated Lab values are: 52, 55, 49

Pantone solid matte Labe values are: 56, 48, 40

Pantone solid uncoated Lab values are: 56, 43, 32

The ICC profile of the colorspace will determine the CMYK mix. Furthermore the way the ICC profile is constructed will effect the mix - ie, when building a profile the operator has to make some determinations about the GCR level, black start point, maximum black, and precision of the profile.

Pantone 173 C in the GRACoL2006_Coated1v2 colorspace (using relative colorimetric rendering) mixes as 8C, 82M, 89Y, 3K. In the Coated GRACoL 2006 (ISO 12647-2:2004) colorspace comes out as 10C, 83M, 90Y, 2K.

Those two profiles are built from the same measurement data, but constructed with different parameters and using different tools.

I feel it's best to think of the Pantone colors as Lab color specifications. The CMYK mixes are relative.
 
I feel it's best to think of the Pantone colors as Lab color specifications. The CMYK mixes are relative.

As it pertains to graphic arts, I feel it's best to think of Pantone colors as ink formulas (as they seem to be the only values that don't shift over time), with Lab data secondary, and CMYK equivalents provided for amusement.
 

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