Why can't our RIP import certain Tiffs/PDF's

[chrissyb]

Hi I'm copying this over from another forum by recommendation from another member there...

Hi guys,

Forgive me if this sounds like a ramble....

Sometimes when we get PDF's in we don't know how they have been created. Sometimes at the imposition stage the PDF won't import. I'm asked in this instance to create TIFFS from the PDF.

When I have tried creating TIFFS from the PDF in Acrobat I have the same problem - they won't import.

What I have to do is import them into indesign - then export either as a PDF or as TIFF's.

I'm asuming that the PRESSTEK system requires a specific PDF standard. We normally are asked to export as 'press-quality' from ID, which is fine.

I've tried running the prepress in acrobat and converting to a specific standard, but it always returns errors - i.e. could not convert this aspect etc.

I do not have enough experience of using acrobat to solve the problem from acrobat. Having said they sometimes when we get PDF's from designers using Corel we end up converting RGB to CMKY this way and it works.

What I'd like to do is understand what's happening and find a neat solution besides importing about 100 odd pages into indesign and placing them manually.

I'm guessing my starting point is understanding the profile required by the PRESSTEK system?

It sounds strange but at the imposition stage it's either a case of it works or it doesn't. Nobody seems to know what PDF standard we should be using.

I want to help my colleagues understand and save me some time...


Chris

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Could you give more info on the PDF version, version of RIP etc?
If you press control- D (comand-D on mac) you will get info about PDF-version and printing method (Application, PDF- producer and PDF version)
Also your version of Adobe Acrobat would be usefull to know to know the preflight/fixup options.
I would try the fixup "Prepress:Sheetfed offset CMYK" if it was a CMYK job.

 

[chrissyb]

PDF producer: Adobe PDF library 8.0

PDF version: 1.7 Acrobat 8.x

I've also just noted that the PDF was created in indesign (with your tip) - so it begs the question how is it being saved so that we can't open it, as there are limited options!

It is Presstek Monentum....5.2.2 seems to be the version number....

I'm using Acrobat Pro on a Mac 8.1.4

Thanks Chris

 

[claude72]

PDF producer: Adobe PDF library 8.0

"Adobe PDF Library" means that the PDF as been directly exported from an Adobe application.

There are still some problems with some RIP and exported PDF... exporting is a quick and easy method, but that's not the best universal method!
And when an exported PDF gives an issue in a RIP, first test to be done is to re-make the PDF with a PostScript file and the Distiller.

PDF version: 1.7 Acrobat 8.x

1.7??? are you sure that your RIP is compatible with PDF 1.7?

When I have tried creating TIFFS from the PDF in Acrobat

Don't do that! it's the worst method to image PDF, as a contone picture is not able to reproduce crisp text and lines/outlines, giving crap printing!
It's only a last chance method... when every other solutions did not work.

 

[prepression]

Hi I'm copying this over from another forum by recommendation from another member there...

Hi guys,

Forgive me if this sounds like a ramble....

Sometimes when we get PDF's in we don't know how they have been created. Sometimes at the imposition stage the PDF won't import. I'm asked in this instance to create TIFFS from the PDF.

When I have tried creating TIFFS from the PDF in Acrobat I have the same problem - they won't import.

What I have to do is import them into indesign - then export either as a PDF or as TIFF's.

I'm asuming that the PRESSTEK system requires a specific PDF standard. We normally are asked to export as 'press-quality' from ID, which is fine.

I've tried running the prepress in acrobat and converting to a specific standard, but it always returns errors - i.e. could not convert this aspect etc.

I do not have enough experience of using acrobat to solve the problem from acrobat. Having said they sometimes when we get PDF's from designers using Corel we end up converting RGB to CMKY this way and it works.

What I'd like to do is understand what's happening and find a neat solution besides importing about 100 odd pages into indesign and placing them manually.

I'm guessing my starting point is understanding the profile required by the PRESSTEK system?

It sounds strange but at the imposition stage it's either a case of it works or it doesn't. Nobody seems to know what PDF standard we should be using.

I want to help my colleagues understand and save me some time...


Chris

I am not sure why you would want to import a PDF into anything. They should be ready to RIP unless you need to edit them and then I would use Acrobat Professional or PitStop for that. If you really want to convert them into TIFFs then try doing that in Photoshop and then impositioning the files in PRESSTEK. I am not sure why InDesign, a layout program would be used for this process.

 

[cjwworld]

Most RIPs cannot handle PDF version 1.7.. I would make it 1.4.. you can do that by requesting it to be that way or in Acrobat. You can use PDF Optimiser.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

If you are handling PDFs I would seriously reccomend uppgrading at least one licence to Acrobat 9 pro, because of it's superior preflight and colour conversions.
Personally I never got on with Acrobat 8, but the preflight fixup I mentioned is available there, also is the PDFX1a fisxups for the different regions.
The PDF lib does say it is exported, but not necessarily from an Adobe app, it is the version of PDF that is the problem.
It is not the export that is the problem simply that the PDF is too new for your RIP. The person saving the PDF must make it backwards compatible. The PDFx1a is a recognised standard that is compatible enough for most workflows.

 

[zombie]

Presstek Momentum = Harlequin. Your rip is too old to handle PDF 1.7.

John

 

[michaelejahn]

chrissyb --- in your workflow, require that all files be saved as PDF/X1a - or upgrade your RIP.

Your PDF files that may or may not contain objects and constructs that are newer than your rip is able to process and parse. Since InDesign can write to PDF directly the resulting PDF constructs will depend on what version of the PDF Specification you select at export - PDF/X1a is based on a much older version (released in 2001) so it will make PDF files that are more 'compatible' with older RIPS such as yours.

Regardless - you workflow and or RIP may simply stop when it detects the string "version: 1.7" string in the header of the PDF - again, saving files as PDF/X-1a may fix this.

I would NOT recommend using "reduce file size" or "PDF Optimizer" tools in Acrobat as these tools are pretty heavy handed and may change the content of the PDF in such a way that you are not happy with (quality wise)

Hope this helps !

 

[maxon]

Consider upgrading your RIP to v.8. Not only this will let you process 1.7 but the genesis 8 harlequin is a lot faster /multiprocessor aware. We have upgraded ECRM harlequin v.7 rips to v.8 and works a breeze, solved all our problems with INDD-cs4 files exported as PDF, works with any PDF, transparencies and all. The 8 is good, didn't have any problem so far. Was also a cheap upgrade.

 

[maxon]

It is Presstek Monentum....5.2.2 seems to be the version number....
I'm using Acrobat Pro on a Mac 8.1.4
Thanks Chris

Sorry just saw that you have the first PDF-aware level 3 there, jumping straight to v.8 would be more expensive than 7.x > 8. But again, it's hell worth it.

 

[chrissyb]

Thanks for the replies.

The first question is to ask is what choice is are the designers making to produce PDF 1.7?

(Prepression)

I don't know what has happened historically where a situation has arisen where the member of the staff responsible for the imposition has been asking for TIFF's rather than PDF's, anything that will work. I suppose work has been supplied from other applications as TIFF's, (maybe PS) so where they couldn't RIP PDF's it has been assumed that converting them to TIFF's would do the trick, where simply communication with the designer to ask for the correct PDF specifcation may have been better.

When I've been asked to do this the only way I could acheive it is by importing it into ID then exporting it as EPS - that's why I've been doing it. Because that's what I've been asked to do - pied piper style! It didn't feel right, but it's because I don't understand the RIP system properly, so I haven't questioned it.

It's only over the last couple of days I've been thinking what is wrong with our workflow, and why I'm importing stuff into ID - like a monkey.

You know I've always supplied stuff at PDF/X1a. But in this job I've been told to supply it as a 'PRESS QUALITY' pdf, this also felt strange. IS THIS SACRIFICING QUALITY THEN?

So the upshot really is to work at the PDF/X1a standard, communicate this to clients and consider an upgrade to the RIP?

Thanks for all your help....

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

The first question is to ask is what choice is are the designers making to produce PDF 1.7?

When saving as PRESS QUALITY this means you will be spinning in upgrade cycles. Press Quality setting is a moving target, and will differ for every version of your (Adobe) software. Press Quality does not sacrifice quality, but editability (1.7 has more features, live transparency and JPG2000 compression are some of the features that are not backward compatable with x1a)
I feel your coworkers are giving you double signals, first telling you to go "RIP does all the work irrespective of if we know or understand how 1.7", then when that fails "pre-RIPed raster only TIF".
If you want to know how to get settings for various applications you may find Ghent PDF Workgroup | Home | Free Tools For Print & Production Workflows Built For You usefull.

But in essence you have landed correct, though I would use OR or UNTIL not AND.
ie PDF/x1a until such a time as you have upgraded (and tested) an upgrade to the RIP.

 

[VladCanada]

zombie was right - Momentum was one of the first RIP PS level 3 and it's out of date now to handle PDF 1.7
Hey, vendors, where are you!

 

[Quetu]

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[cjwworld]

I would NOT recommend using "reduce file size" or "PDF Optimizer" tools in Acrobat as these tools are pretty heavy handed and may change the content of the PDF in such a way that you are not happy with (quality wise)

Hope this helps !

I have a preset in PDF Optimizer that just change the PDF version only. No other changes selected. So the only change is changing the PDF version to 1.4