Xerox 242 to a 700??

[Pro Digital Photos]

Okay, I've read most all post about the 700 here and heard many opinions. I'm a photolab, and our 252 was our first 4 color printing machine and a huge learning curve as well. I've been thinking of upgrading as i felt this was an entry level machine and the bigger models would be an improvement all around, but I don't think that's true. I had a demo today with a 700, printed all my own work, on the papers I'm currently using on my 252. The quality seemed the same, a little disappointed, but expected. The auto duplex on the thicker stock was great (I REALLY wish it could do 300gsm). The fact that trays 1-3 hold 12x18 is GREAT. I had a sheet of 300gsm that jammed in one of the finishers all day, all the techs there couldn't figure it out. I also 'tricked' the machine to auto duplex the 300gsm, and it seemed to do fine, but i realize they will not support problems duplexing that thick. When I sent a bunch of manual duplex jobs, the 700 would stall out on side 2. Our 252 does this, but the 700 would sometimes never print the second side and had the cancel the job and send it again....that's not good if I had 1000 side ones and then had to cancel???

So I got the sheets back to my lab and had the cards cut and scored. I've always hated all the chipping and cracking with the 252 as I feel this is my only shortcoming against Indigo prints (which I do not think crack and chip like toner prints). Anyway, after I got these samples cut and scored, they were much worse!!! More cracking on the folds and at the cuts there was chipping, and not only that, the toner it chipped got all over the rollers in the machine, so the next job had lines of toner where I had cut the test sheets!!!

I was disappointed and don't know where to go from here. I think I want a 252 with the 700's trays and increased duplexing capabilities (while I'm dreaming, 300gsm auto duplexing) and the decurlers. I was thinking maybe the 5000 would be better for me, I can buy a used one for half of a new 700, but further reading has got me thinking I will not like the oil used in the fuser.

The biggest problem with the 700 tests was an uncoated 80# CVR sheet that is simply awesome on my 252, no cracking or chipping AT ALL. On the 700 the toner on this sheet almost just fell off... it was crazy. And even the other coated stocks would rub off when I was folding the cards on the crease. Is this the fuser problem I've been reading about. I guess the 700s fuser is not as hot for the low melt toner?? Or the faster speed it travels through it???

So I think I'm just going to live with the 252 and maybe upgrade to an external rip as that would probably increase productivity, but the auto duplex would do the most for me.

What are your thoughts??

 

[bompi]

Io sinceramente non ho mai fatto delle prove con la X700, ho solo visto delle stampe fatte dal mio venditore di zona e mi sono sembrate migliori rispetto alle mie X250.
Anche noi stiamo valutando l'acquisto di una macchina nuova, la X5000 ha un ottima qualità di stampa ma l'olio nel fusore è un problema se poi devi laminare i fogli.
Ho visto delle prove anche della KM65hc è sono rimasto veramente impressionato per la qualità di stampa, unico neo è che in Italia l'assistenza non è così celere, infatti pensiamo di optare la OCE che hanno le stesse macchine di KM ma con una assistenza al pari di Xerox.

 

[bompi]

I honestly have never done the tests with the X700, I have only seen prints made from my local seller and I look better than my X250.
We are also considering buying a new machine, the X5000 has an excellent print quality but the fuser oil is a problem if you must then laminating sheets.
I also saw some evidence of KM65hc and I was really impressed with the print quality, only negative is that in Italy the service is not so rapid, in fact we think we choose the OCE that have the same machines but with a KM service Like Xerox.

 

[geoman]

Pro Digital, I use a 700 almost every other day. The thing is a robust and capable device, in the right hands (mine). Most of the problems I come across are from people who haven't been trained to run it properly.

Your toner chipping may probably be due to poor fusing, ie not setting the correct paper weight into the press interface when loading the stock. Or is a problem with your paper.

EA toner (as used in 700s, 250s, KM650x machine) doesn't crack. Cracking is due to the paper coatings or fibers failing, which then carry the toner with them. I've proven the flexibility of properly fused toner many times by printing onto 150micron teslin then stretching it until the substrate fails. The toner never flakes or cracks.

 

[jzambole]

Cracking Issue

Cracking Issue

Sorry for the late delay, but I have just registered to join discussion. If you are having a Cracking problem, you will need to get a Tri - Creaser on order, especially if you have heavy ink coverage or toner based, Your finsihing process & scoring process will improve greatly on the folds. I work for a Company called Jorson and Carlson and we are the National dealer for Technifold USA, and have the Tri - Creasers available. Do you have a folder??

Hope to here back from you. You can crease materials up 350gsm no problems with out fiber cracking.

 

[Pro Digital Photos]

I have many papers that have been used in an indigo and do not crack, but they do crack with my xerox toner prints. I have a duplo cutter, creaser, so that is not the problem. I understand using the correct fuser settings with each paper, I was also with 'expert' for the 700 demonstration. I can rub the toner off the 700 prints after slight bending. It gets all over the place.

I wish my experience with toner prints was better, but it's not, so it's hard for me to believe that you do not have cracking/flaking issues. I met a guy online who had a 252, just like mine. He said he had not problems with this and sent me his paper, I have the same problem, using the same settings and everything. I think I'm just too picky. There is a possibility that the lack of humidity here is changing things, as he is in TX with high humidity. I have humidifiers, but can only really get it up to 30 maybe 40%, but no real change with these issues.

The 700 was disappointing. How am I supposed to buy a much more expensive machine that performed worse using my papers and my files??? I'm no expert, but we are doing well with the 252 and cannot see anything better quality wise on the 700. I like the auto duplexing and large trays, but that's not worth the upgrade with the image issues. I do not have problems with registration on the 252, has been fine and is not a concern for us. The 700 registration is nice, the control is nice, but not necessary for us as I've spent the time to get the 252 spot on, we vary +/-1mm front to back total, so not bad.

 

[jzambole]

Send me samples

Send me samples

If you send me the samples that are cracking and always troublesome, send me the samples and I will crease them. What do you have to lose?? View the link below for a video demo of the products to help crease 100% free of fiber cracking.

Jorson and Carlson Company
1501 Pratt Boulevard
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
Ph: 800.656.7766 x 34 / Attn: Joe Zambole

PRODUCT VIDEOS

 

[overscan]

One difference you should notice between a 252 and the 700 is the amount of detail in photos. We do a lot of photo christmas cards, and if the customer uploads a photo with a face that is maybe 6mm diameter we basically lose most of the detail of their face. Tests that I have done on a 700 showed it could resolve a lot more detail. I also played around with a km65hc and it was slightly better than the 700 as far as detail goes.