Xerox 2nd BTR

[NorwoodPress]

Is anyone else in the UK struggling to obtain 2nd BTR for their Versant 280? I ordered one a week and half ago and still not turned up. It's marking like mad now and at a complete stop

Also on a side note, is it just Xerox machines that are having this issue only? What about Canon, Richo, Konica etc. We were looking at getting a 3100 or 4100, but the 2nd BTR issue is kind of putting us off.

 

[pippip]

We always keep a spare on site. In Ireland here but the other week I was actually allowed order x2 and they arrived the next day. Now we have a V80 which is slightly different so maybe the V280 is experiencing delays here too.

I'd phone up and order another today, say it's an unacceptable delay and you need another spare for next time. Have you been on to your sales rep?

 

[TJPrinter]

Also on a side note, is it just Xerox machines that are having this issue only? What about Canon, Richo, Konica etc. We were looking at getting a 3100 or 4100, but the 2nd BTR issue is kind of putting us off.

This is a special feature only Xerox provides us. The 2nd BTR is a serious problem on the 280 if you run coated stock and I now believe it shouldn’t even be rated to run coated stock. I have a little over 2 years left on my lease and I wish I could get rid of the 280. If Xerox could fix the 2nd BTR issue I could live with the other minor issues that any other vendor may have too.

It took a few years to convince my Xerox dealer to allow me to order one when I need one. I now have a spare on the shelf. As soon as I replace the 2nd BTR I order a spare. The one I just replaced went bad at only 20k clicks. I did throw it back in to print 10,000 9x12 envelopes because the marks were outside the image of the envelope.

A few weeks ago I had a Xerox rep and a production specialist stop for a sales call and they were boasting how much better their service is than any dealer (right). I asked what they were doing about the 2nd BTR problem, and the specialist didn’t know anything about a problem (right). I gave them several sheets of coated stock to show them the slight background toning (another issue along with the 2nd BTR) and ask them to find out what is causing it and to please let me know how to resolve the 2nd BTR issue. I haven’t heard back from either one of them! Problem solved, there is no solution.

 

[pippip]

I understand all machines have some fault or another but I would expect a manufacturer to work to resolve such an obvious one.
The fact this problem has been around so long through three generations of machine is what annoys me so much.
Obviously shows they've made no attempt to fix.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

A few weeks ago I had a Xerox rep and a production specialist stop for a sales call and they were boasting how much better their service is than any dealer (right). I asked what they were doing about the 2nd BTR problem, and the specialist didn’t know anything about a problem (right). I gave them several sheets of coated stock to show them the slight background toning (another issue along with the 2nd BTR) and ask them to find out what is causing it and to please let me know how to resolve the 2nd BTR issue. I haven’t heard back from either one of them! Problem solved, there is no solution.

Pretty sure they are trained to talk this way. I've only met one tech that admits the problems. The rest just spin in circles until you get frustrated. It's almost like they are trained to paint you as a conspiracy theorist.

"A what? Gloss destroying 2nd BTR? You're making that up!"

 

[SoggyWinter]

Pretty sure they are trained to talk this way. I've only met one tech that admits the problems. The rest just spin in circles until you get frustrated. It's almost like they are trained to paint you as a conspiracy theorist.

"A what? Gloss destroying 2nd BTR? You're making that up!"

I've had the same experience bringing up the defective versant drums and asking for serial number ranges to avoid.

 

[TJPrinter]

We were looking at getting a 3100 or 4100, but the 2nd BTR issue is kind of putting us off.

Do you mean that they will replace the 280 or you would add a 3100 or 4100? If I was adding another press, it would be from another vendor. I think that the life is slightly better on the 2nd BTR for the 3100/4100 because of the cooling unit it uses. The sheets are cooled right after the fuser and eliminate some of the heat build up that kills the 2nd BTR when duplexing coated stock. All the Versants use the same faulty design 2nd BTR, so you won’t escape that issue by upgrading from the 280 to a 3100 or 4100.

Seeing some of the other odd problems people run into with Ricoh and KM it seems to make sense nowadays to have two vendors if you have the budget and space.

 

[NorwoodPress]

Do you mean that they will replace the 280 or you would add a 3100 or 4100? If I was adding another press, it would be from another vendor. I think that the life is slightly better on the 2nd BTR for the 3100/4100 because of the cooling unit it uses. The sheets are cooled right after the fuser and eliminate some of the heat build up that kills the 2nd BTR when duplexing coated stock. All the Versants use the same faulty design 2nd BTR, so you won’t escape that issue by upgrading from the 280 to a 3100 or 4100.

Seeing some of the other odd problems people run into with Ricoh and KM it seems to make sense nowadays to have two vendors if you have the budget and space.

No, we were looking at a remanufactured 3100, apparently only done 3 million clicks which is low for this machine they say. It's just the 2nd BTR issue which kind of puts you off if it's the same issue on all the machines. Now I was looking at Richo, but I have been told their service for repairs is not as good as Xerox? But I think it would be good to have 2 different machines We've got another 4 years to go on the v280

 

[NorwoodPress]

Pretty sure they are trained to talk this way. I've only met one tech that admits the problems. The rest just spin in circles until you get frustrated. It's almost like they are trained to paint you as a conspiracy theorist.

"A what? Gloss destroying 2nd BTR? You're making that up!"

Most engineers I speak to, all admit the problem does exist, but there is 1 or 2 engineers who try to go down the route of saying to use Xerox paper which is twice as much, but at the end of the day paper is paper and most all come from the same paper mills here in Europe and Far East.

 

[NorwoodPress]

I understand all machines have some fault or another but I would expect a manufacturer to work to resolve such an obvious one.
The fact this problem has been around so long through three generations of machine is what annoys me so much.
Obviously shows they've made no attempt to fix.

I fully agree, does make you think what is Xerox actually trying to do? I mean it must be costing them a fortune in producing and shipping the 2nd BTR parts

 

[NorwoodPress]

We always keep a spare on site. In Ireland here but the other week I was actually allowed order x2 and they arrived the next day. Now we have a V80 which is slightly different so maybe the V280 is experiencing delays here too.

I'd phone up and order another today, say it's an unacceptable delay and you need another spare for next time. Have you been on to your sales rep?

I did speak to my sales rep and he did tell me that apparently the 2nd BTR's are being manufactured in Ireland and they have opened up another factory to cope with demand. So perhaps that might be why you can get them quite quick. I have tried to place another on order as a spare.

 

[gazfocus]

We have a Versant 80 and. get 2nd BTR issues as a lot of other people do. The only thing I can say is that at least you can change the 2nd BTR yourself, whereas when we had banding on our KM it would usually require an engineer callout if changing the coroners didn't fix it (though the engineers came much quicker than they do with Xerox).

We too are looking towards getting a 3100/4100 as we print mostly card stock but I honestly don't know what we'll get and we are about 9 months off from getting anything so plenty of time to shop around but seriously thinking of swapping our Versant 80 for something like the Xerox C70/Primelink C9079 as they don’t seem to suffer with the 2nd btr issue.

 

[SoggyWinter]

We have a Versant 80 and. get 2nd BTR issues as a lot of other people do. The only thing I can say is that at least you can change the 2nd BTR yourself, whereas when we had banding on our KM it would usually require an engineer callout if changing the coroners didn't fix it (though the engineers came much quicker than they do with Xerox).

We too are looking towards getting a 3100/4100 as we print mostly card stock but I honestly don't know what we'll get and we are about 9 months off from getting anything so plenty of time to shop around but seriously thinking of swapping our Versant 80 for something like the Xerox C70/Primelink C9079 as they don’t seem to suffer with the 2nd btr issue.

Based on my C75 experience, the C70 and Primelink may be a struggle with slowing down for cardstock and having poor front to back registration.

 

[gazfocus]

Based on my C75 experience, the C70 and Primelink may be a struggle with slowing down for cardstock and having poor front to back registration.

To be honest, we have the nvm adjusted to slow our Versant 80 down on the uncoated card stock we use as we were getting banding without it but yeh I get what you mean. If we do end up with a 3100/4100 for card stocks we might still trade our Versant in for a prime link or c70 (refurb) for printing things like stickers. The company that services our Versant won’t let us keep a 2nd btr as we don’t pay them enough every month haha so we have to wait when we need one.

They are very good with giving us spare drums and toner though to be fair and I do like our Versant when it’s working, I’m just concerned that if we do get a bigger machine, the Versant 80 might not get enough work through it to keep it happy.

 

[pippip]

Replacing another btr this morning and something dawned on me, I've lost count of how many i've changed over the years of having our versant 80 but I realised they ALL fail with visual wear and marking on the non operator side? I don't think I've ever had one with marking on the operator side? Looking back at the couple I have on site they all have wear covering approx 3-4 inches from the non operator side, the rest of the roller looks perfect and this has always been the case.

Anyone else experienced the same wear/marking pattern or have a possible reason?

I mean the failure is suppose to be coated paper destroying the roller so why only one side every time?

 

[TJPrinter]

Replacing another btr this morning and something dawned on me, I've lost count of how many i've changed over the years of having our versant 80 but I realised they ALL fail with visual wear and marking on the non operator side? I don't think I've ever had one with marking on the operator side? Looking back at the couple I have on site they all have wear covering approx 3-4 inches from the non operator side, the rest of the roller looks perfect and this has always been the case.

Anyone else experienced the same wear/marking pattern or have a possible reason?

I mean the failure is suppose to be coated paper destroying the roller so why only one side every time?

Yes, same here. I’ve asked about this and got no answer. For the most part 90% of the roller looks like it’s brand new but once the end of the roller starts to mark the sheets it’s almost useless. I keep them around and will put them back in when running envelopes to get some more life out of them. I’ve given up that there will ever be a solution, it’s too bad because I do like the 280. At least now I have a spare on the shelf and don’t have any down time.

 

[pippip]

So i'm not the only one. I think it might be something to do with toner dropping down through the back of the machine. I wouldn't call it excess but there's always bits of toner about.

I find sometimes the BTR isn't marking the back of the sheets but I get a very light ripples in solids on the sheets (light lines 1mm apart). Like a gear is causing a constant vibration. Replacing the 2nd btr fixes it, this is where I initially thought toner was causing an issue on that side by falling on the exposed gears.

 

[chrisio]

Replacing another btr this morning and something dawned on me, I've lost count of how many i've changed over the years of having our versant 80 but I realised they ALL fail with visual wear and marking on the non operator side? I don't think I've ever had one with marking on the operator side? Looking back at the couple I have on site they all have wear covering approx 3-4 inches from the non operator side, the rest of the roller looks perfect and this has always been the case.

Anyone else experienced the same wear/marking pattern or have a possible reason?

I mean the failure is suppose to be coated paper destroying the roller so why only one side every time?

That's the exact failure we see as well. For the first time I actually had an engineer try and blame the paper that I was using. He said that the btr problems were all resolved and if I used xerox paper then all my problems would go away. I just laughed at him and carried on with my day! Konica are currently running the numbers on leases for a 4070 with all the trimmings so it looks like I might be moving from xerox

 

[TJPrinter]

For the first time I actually had an engineer try and blame the paper that I was using. He said that the btr problems were all resolved and if I used xerox paper then all my problems would go away. I just laughed at him and carried on with my day!

That is funny! He's right in an odd way, if you only use Xerox paper the problem will go away, at least in the USA Xerox no longer has any coated paper under their brand. So yes, the problem goes away because you're not using any coated paper.

I too notice more toner on that same side and thought the same thing but have no clue how to find out if it means anything.

 

[sidneykidney]

My engineer tried selling me a metal 2nd BTR Roller which he said works...but I'm on a service contract so why would I go down that route?????

Below text is taken from the website below:
NOTE: This type of roller was reported not to work for NCR (carbonless paper). A friendly tech clued us in that for NCR a coating builds up on the metal roller so do not use the all-metal roller with NCR paper.

2nd BTR Rebuild Kit - **METAL ROLL version** (For Rebuilding the 2nd BTR Assembly) for Xerox® Versant V80, V2100 Press

(Versant®) V80, V180, V2100, V3100 V80 Metal 2nd BTR Rebuild Kit

www.partsdrop.com