Xerox 7002 & 8002

[leetaylor]

Xerox have just announced these two new products.

With new LOW GLOSS TONER!!

New Xerox Presses Meet Increased Demand for High-Quality Digital Color


Could this be there answer to the Canon ImagePRESS technology?

Anyone heard any info / gossip on these new machines??

Lee.

 

[UberTech]

1 According to research by InfoTrends, Xerox's installed base of digital production color devices accounts for more than 50 percent of the total worldwide page volume printed by high-speed cut-sheet digital production color printers with duty cycles exceeding 300,000 letter impressions per month.

that's a bit like porche saying 50% of cars used to go over 200mph are made my porche, well duh. Aside from canon and maybe now ricoh that's a lonely duty cycle. I would have thougt it would be more than 50%.

Here's me thinking the matte look was undesirable. Amazing how times change.

 

[leetaylor]

that's a bit like porche saying 50% of cars used to go over 200mph are made my porche, well duh. Aside from canon and maybe now ricoh that's a lonely duty cycle. I would have thougt it would be more than 50%.

Here's me thinking the matte look was undesirable. Amazing how times change.

Not quite sure what that ramble was all about?

I was purely posting a link to the new Xerox Docucolor 7002 & 8002 machines.

I understand they are basically 7000 and 8000 Docucolor's BUT using a new Low Gloss Toner, which gives a more Offset Litho like finish?

I would be interested to here from Xerox customers (I am one too!) to see gauge their opinion on these new machines.

Do you think they have been developed as an answer to the Canon ImagePRESS range?

I understand the Konica machines are aimed at the cheaper end of the market? But I stand to be corrected!

 

[Craig]

Leetaylor,
Don't take it personal, KM employed folks get a little on edge when Xerox, Ricoh and Canon come out and start spanking them. It must be something in their Kool-Aid.

 

[leetaylor]

Leetaylor,
Don't take it personal, KM employed folks get a little on edge when Xerox, Ricoh and Canon come out and start spanking them. It must be something in their Kool-Aid.

Ha!

Have you heard any details on these two new machines Craig?

I'm using a 5000 at the moment, but were looking to renew next year, so these could be just what we are looking for!

 

[Craig]

The only thing I have heard is what's available on the web. It looks as if it is the same box as the 7000/8000AP with new toner and the AQS as a standard vs an option. More in-line finishing options, but that doesn't do much for me. I can't see anything else much different.

 

[leetaylor]

The only thing I have heard is what's available on the web. It looks as if it is the same box as the 7000/8000AP with new toner and the AQS as a standard vs an option. More in-line finishing options, but that doesn't do much for me. I can't see anything else much different.

Interesting.

As a Xerox user yourself, do you find may client's dislike the Glossy Fuser Oil finish that the Docucolors put out?

Even though Canon and KM bleat on about a "flatter finish" from their boxes we rarely get any complaints (we run a 5000)

Lee.

 

[lkl7255]

Hello!

What Craig said is correct.
The 7002/8002 uses a new toner that gives the machine a matte finish, and it has the Automated Color Quality Suite built in. On the previous 7000AP/8000AP, this was an option you could add on. It makes it so you don’t have to do the manual calibration process, and you’ll have better spot color matching and profiling.

One thing I just learned too is that its finishing can be chained together. So, instead of just having a bookletmaker, or an inline punch, you can have a GBC punch attached to a Standard Horizon bookletmaker. That’s nice because then you have more job flexibility and aren’t pigeon-holed into finishing one type of application.

Leetaylor-
I’m a big fan of the 5000. I have always liked its image quality and glossy look. From talking to customers at tradeshows… the glossy vs. matte discussion really seems to be 50/50. Some love it, others dislike it. I think it’s rather subjective and depends on what the end customer ultimately likes.

If you are looking to eventually upgrade your 5000, the 7002/8002 also have the custom paper profiles and alignment profiles your 5000 has. I think the biggest difference will be the look of the prints (less glossy), the speed, and your printer’s UI isn’t the PC UI you have on the 5000. Will you be attending Print 09? I will be there!

Also, in response to your question about whether it was developed to answer to the Canon ImagePRESS… I think they certainly added pressure with the “flatter look” side of digital printing which ultimately led for a push for the low gloss toner, but that’s about it. I think Xerox machines have always had better color consistency/accuracy, productivity, substrate range, etc. than most of our competitors. My personal opinion: I feel as though Xerox has fantastic products, but think the main reason we lose deals is not because of the capability of the products, but on price (I also think you get what you pay for. Most other machines have plastic parts, ours you can tell are metal).

Thanks for being a Xerox customer and it sounds like you've enjoyed your 5000 so far!

 

[leetaylor]

Hello!

What Craig said is correct.
The 7002/8002 uses a new toner that gives the machine a matte finish, and it has the Automated Color Quality Suite built in. On the previous 7000AP/8000AP, this was an option you could add on. It makes it so you don’t have to do the manual calibration process, and you’ll have better spot color matching and profiling.

One thing I just learned too is that its finishing can be chained together. So, instead of just having a bookletmaker, or an inline punch, you can have a GBC punch attached to a Standard Horizon bookletmaker. That’s nice because then you have more job flexibility and aren’t pigeon-holed into finishing one type of application.

Leetaylor-
I’m a big fan of the 5000. I have always liked its image quality and glossy look. From talking to customers at tradeshows… the glossy vs. matte discussion really seems to be 50/50. Some love it, others dislike it. I think it’s rather subjective and depends on what the end customer ultimately likes.

If you are looking to eventually upgrade your 5000, the 7002/8002 also have the custom paper profiles and alignment profiles your 5000 has. I think the biggest difference will be the look of the prints (less glossy), the speed, and your printer’s UI isn’t the PC UI you have on the 5000. Will you be attending Print 09? I will be there!

Also, in response to your question about whether it was developed to answer to the Canon ImagePRESS… I think they certainly added pressure with the “flatter look” side of digital printing which ultimately led for a push for the low gloss toner, but that’s about it. I think Xerox machines have always had better color consistency/accuracy, productivity, substrate range, etc. than most of our competitors. My personal opinion: I feel as though Xerox has fantastic products, but think the main reason we lose deals is not because of the capability of the products, but on price (I also think you get what you pay for. Most other machines have plastic parts, ours you can tell are metal).

Thanks for being a Xerox customer and it sounds like you've enjoyed your 5000 so far!

Thanks for the info above - much appreciated!

Won't be visiting Print '09 as I'm based in the UK, but we have our equivalent show (every four years) IPEX, which is next year, 2010, so hopefully these new machines will be on display there!

Regards.

Lee.

 

[mrgraphics]

Hello Dude!

Sorry to just pop in this post. Just simple question will this product be better then KM6501e/ep? Will that convince people to change their minds to go for Xerox rather then KM?

 

[andreisarbu]

mrgraphics,

7000/8000 series is different class from KM6501. KM6501 customers will look maybe at 700 series instead of jumping to a higher level.

 

[scounts]

Scounts

Scounts

Mr. Taylor have you been able to gain any additional insight on your research RE the Xerox 7002/8002? I have just been approached by Xerox to replace my 5000 with the 7002.

 

[Duke]

Me too-deciding between the Xerox 8002 and the Ricoh C900 right now.

 

[gcspec]

Dc7002 8002

Dc7002 8002

I can tell you whatever you need to know about the new DC7002/8002. I will also be totally honest and let you know I am a Xerox sales rep. I recently sold a 7002 after being in a fight against the Ricoh C900 and the Canon 7000VP. In the end, the Ricoh pushed itself out in the first round based on image quality and the low duty cycle which left my 7002 against the Canon 7000VP. Both are worthy competitors, but the customer decided on the fact that the Canon oversaturates color on the page, this was really obvious when placed next to our page on the same stock. The best test was comparing our page to the customers offset page - right out of the box on the customers stock the match was incredible!

Not one of these hard-core company guys. I can look at something honestly and say what I really think of it. Before Xerox I had 18 years experience in the print industry and used to buy this kind of gear. I know money is an issue and Ricoh and KM are cheaper some of the time, but you get what you pay for.

Do your homework.

 

[gcspec]

I can tell you all about a customer who just decided on a Xerox 7002 over a Ricoh C900S and a Canon 7000VP. Yes, the Xerox was $50,000 more, but the first thing I told him was that the Ricoh does not belong in the same class as the Xerox 7002 and the Canon 7000VP. He saw that for himself in 1 file test. The Ricoh was streaked and had color and gloss differentials on each page that were huge. Not a Graphic Arts machine - and the 400k duty cycle will leave you on the side of the road with no gas in the tank.

 

[LodAssoc]

Xerox DC7002

Xerox DC7002

I had a 7002 installed in early November '09.

We replaced our DC5000 with the DC7002. After we hit 1MM clicks on the 5000 we started to get some seriour color issues that they just couldn't fix. We decided to install the 7002 to replace it after it came highly recommended by our saleperson. We trusted him and put it in.

I will give you the GOOD first:

Image Quality is fanatastic. I think the DPI is 2400x2400. It's great!!!

The AQCS is amazing. This has spot color stuff, and the In-Line Spectrophotometer (ILS). With the ILS you no long need to do the manual calibration with the eye1. All you do is pause your jobs and hit calibrate. It does all the work. It's so fast and easy. It's great.

You still have the same Custom Profiling with the 7002 as the 5000, just a little more powerful. You can Auto Duplex up to 300gsm (and a little more on a good day), so you don;t need to use a profile to get you heavy stuff to duplex, but you might need it for even coverage. Differet settings for different machines...

It runs fast, and smoothly. There are a lot of finishing devices for this machine, and i understand you can chain them all together on this machine. I don't think this was possible on the 5000, but i don't have a need for it, so i might be mistaken.


And for the BAD:

After installation the machine ran great. It ran great for a bout a week. After 6 days I had to place my first service call on it. If you decide to go with a 7002, make sure you have the techs change the fuser setting fromm 1000 to 100. They wil know what setting you mean. Basically what happens is the fuser will get cut marks in it at 11" or 12" or whatever size sheet you run and when you go to a larger sheet you will see those marks on the larger sheet. If you've had a 5000, or 2045, or 6060, you will know what I mean. This setting that they can change tells the fuser to shift position after X number of sheets are printed during a job, and resets before each job. It comes standard with the setting of 1000. So depending on how long you runs are you will want to get that changed.

That issue isn't terrible, and very fixable.

But, then came the real issue. I run VDP postcards everyday for several clients. These are small runs but alot of them. These are not color criticl, but pretty muich everything else I do is. I noticed one day, after a bout a month, of haveing the machine, and after I ad cut a stack of sheets, that i was getting an incredible color swing. I took my stack and fanned it out to see each sheet. The first sheet was one color, say blue. The second sheet was purple, and the third sheet was red. and then back to Blue. They were all supposed to be the same color. It seemed to go in sets of three, repeating that pattern: blue, purple, red. I mean, serious color swings all through the job. So, naturally a service call was made.

Make a long story short, the issue in unresolvable. We had been told by a tech that every 7002 was having this issu, and it was something from the manufacturing factory. I heard the complete opposite fromthe color "specialist", that ours is the only one with the issue. So, after 10 or 15 visits from the technicians, they decide the aren;t going to be able to fix it and are going to relace my machine (after only 60K)

Now it it Feb. 23rd 2010. I have had my replacement 7002 in since the 18th (actually only functioning correctly since the 22nd), and I already see my color issue again. It is not so bad, but i'm sure it will be. I will update this posting to let you all in on how it goes. For the record, there are less than 5K clicks on this machine... I guess i'll place a service call...

Oh, and i still haven't recieved my training yet.

If you are thinking about this machine please hit me with any questions you might have before commiting to it. Or, if you aren't color critical, go for it. But why look at this machine if you aren't?

If anybody knows of a comparable machine please let me know, I need to get something better in here fast.

 

[ShortRunMagazines]

LordAssoc...

I am currently having an arguement with a coworker on what to look at. I said go with the 7000/2, they said 2 refurbed DC5000's or KM6501's. I would assume that based on your experience you'd go with the 2 machines vs. the one 700x?

Thanks,

Jerod.

 

[KCJared]

LodAssoc, we've had our 7002 since late October and have been interrupted on every significant run so far with a color or registration issue. There are a few others I have read about on this forum that are having some terrible difficulties with Xerox. I wonder if we should get all the 7002 owners together to let Xerox know that it's not okay for us to loose so much time on our jobs while we all act like their guinea pigs.

 

[LodAssoc]

I wish I could recommend the 7002, but I can't stick up for these guys anymore.

What are you currently running?

The 7002 and the 5000 are very, very different machines. You don't get the gloss finish with the 7002. It looks more matte, like an offset press. The quality on the 7002 is about the same as the 5000, just not as glossy. There are a few different customer replacables on the 7002 that keep productivity to a maximum. It's a very good box, if you aren't color critical.

That is my only gripe with the 7002, and for us it is a deal breaker. All of our work is high-end, color critical stuff on a max size sheet with full coverage. The 5000 ran this stuff wonderfully. I needed more speed, so we got the 7002. It's a great machine for an office setting that pumps out letter size junk. I hate saying that, but i'm to the point were I can't say much else.

As far as the 5000, it's also a great box. It slows down for large paper, and it doesn't auto-duplex over 220gsm, however there are work arounds, and I will enlighten you if you go with it. It is ver glossy, almost aqueous looking. But, if that;s what your customers like, great. My box ran great until about 1.5MM clicks, and it started to go downhill fast, so i'd be a little skeptical about a refurb. You'd be best off testing the actual box and run some of your files on it, if you haven't already.

As far as the KM box. KM's are interesting machines. A fellow printer of mine runs a black only KM, and loves it. He has about 6MM on it in less than a year, and it's going strong. That numbers a little low, but he's growing his B/W business. I don't know much about the color boxes. I know they run fast and efficiently, but aren't quality oriented. I have gotten many samples from KM, but i couldn't sell any of them to my clients. The quality just isn't as good as the 5000, or 7002. Really any Xerox machine.

I would say, if your customers like the glossy, go with the 5000's.

 

[LodAssoc]

LodAssoc, we've had our 7002 since late October and have been interrupted on every significant run so far with a color or registration issue. There are a few others I have read about on this forum that are having some terrible difficulties with Xerox. I wonder if we should get all the 7002 owners together to let Xerox know that it's not okay for us to loose so much time on our jobs while we all act like their guinea pigs.

Are you having the same issues that I'm having? It's ridiculous. We are now on our second 7002 in 4 months and this thing doesn't work either. I can't say I have a bad reg. issue, but the color is terrible. I have lost 2 clients, well the majority of there work anyway, and thousand of dollars. Not to mention all the wasted down time. This 2nd 7002 is Xerox's last chance. I think your right when you say "guinea pigs". These guys doan have a damn clue how to fix this machine. So I sit helpless with work going elsewhere. I understand that I'm not running an iGen, therefore I'm small cheese. But, I gotta eat. We've been loyal customers for a long time. We pay our bills and upgrade every couple of years. We're trying to grow this business, and soon it's going to have to be without Xerox.

We should all get together and do something. There has to be strength in numbers, b/c I know they don't give a damn about just one guy.

How many printer are out there running a defunct 7002? Let's start a riot!!!!