Xerox 800/1000 Press

[ShortRunMagazines]

We are looking at a Xerox 800 (possibily a 1000) and wanted to get some feedback. I've seen samples and am impressed by the quality. I haven't seen one in person yet.

It would replace a Xerox DC5000 with 1.3million clicks that is working fine as we do not have enough available space to house both DC5000's and the 800/1000.

My questions are (and please answer based on real-world experience/feedback and not the spec-sheet -- I've already been over that a hundred times):

1) Is the color stable page-to-page and day-to-day?
2) How long do the drums last?
3) Are there supply chain issues like the X700 had?
4) How responsive is service? Are there a lot of overnight outages? (waiting on parts...)
5) Overall, are you happy with the purchase?

About us:
We currently have 2 DC 5000AP's that run a combined total of about 375,000 12x18 clicks per month. Our primary product is magazines so it is high coverage and graphics intensive. The demand for faster turn-around is increasing which is becoming more of a challenge as the 5000AP's are good but we are currently running about 2 days between an order being placed and an opening on either press. (Which causes a great deal of overnight shipping and overtime when a rush order comes in.) We are only a 1 shift company and would like to stay that way.

 

[Milo Wilson]

Why not get a preowned Igen3 for less than the 800/1000. I can imagine the cost of the new 800/1000 will be very high and due to the fact that they are untested in the marketplace as of now. You can get a tried and true IGEN3 for probably a 3rd of the cost and has a great track record. Let me know of any other questions and if you would like to call me my cell is 714-292-6912.
I'm not a sales person just a technician.

 

[arossetti]

FYI - the 800/1000 click pricing has a large sheet charge. So say your click cost is .06 if you run anything larger then 8.5x11" (forget the actual process direction dimension) they will charge an extra .015ish.... so your 12x18 click would be .075. Since you are doing high coverage printing it probably wouldn't make sense to take the toner out of the click charge.

Xerox wants us to replace a dc8000ap with an 800 or 1000 and we are going through the same research. I do not know how many are in the field yet, if any besides the test sites - so I do not know if anyone will have the answers to the questions you ask.

I can also tell you that the price they intially offered us was the same as an iGen4-110 they offered last year (Lease + Service). So unless they become more realistic and stop trying to sell the "hype" we will take a pass on the product.

 

[arossetti]

Why not get a preowned Igen3 for less than the 800/1000. I can imagine the cost of the new 800/1000 will be very high and due to the fact that they are untested in the marketplace as of now. You can get a tried and true IGEN3 for probably a 3rd of the cost and has a great track record. Let me know of any other questions and if you would like to call me my cell is 714-292-6912.
I'm not a sales person just a technician.

You need to also factor in the electric. For our location our monthly bill would have increased some $6,000 a month with an iGen. You might have a cheaper lease but you need to factor power in also.

Additionaly if you do not have 3-phase power in your building already that can be an extra 10-15k to do.

 

[ShortRunMagazines]

What are you leaning to?

What are you leaning to?

I was not told about the oversize sheet charge. The initial lease payments that have been discussed is in the $5500/mo for a 800. My spec sheet says 50Amp single phase for power. Were you talking about the IGen or the 800/1000?

With that being said, what are you looking at as a replacement?

Thanks,

Jerod.

 

[arossetti]

The iGen needs 3-phase, and needs you to install a drain pipe for the internal "a/c" unit. The 800/1000 you just drop into a spot like any machine. The iGen takes a lot of location prep.

For a replacement we are not in a drastic need to replace our 8000. We are trying to downsize the amount of BW machines we have and the 800 would help us get the promo buy out dollars plus add a better product with increase paper handling.

 

[arossetti]

We managed to get a deal together with Xerox for a 800 and a couple BW production machines. Should be installed mid-august so I will let you all know how it goes.

 

[geoman]

Spent a couple of hours this morning playing with an X1000DCP. This thing is impressive. Well built. I am familiar with the 700 and the feeder and finsher options it has. The X1000 I used today has the same "looking" equipment, but the stuff seems more robust. I was running 350gsm duplex, and you can tell by the sound of the feeding that it sounds different, more capable. No whinny, struggling sound from the feed/drive motors when feeding the heavy weight stock. I was very impressed and can't wait to get another go.

Arossetti, can't wait to hear your impressions of the machine.

 

[printer in heart]

1000 is a great machine, the only problem online bookletmaker can saddlestich or squire fold 10 sheets of 80lb text paper (40 page signature booklet). Interposer can only handle 11x17 paper so you can't feed 12x18 cover stock in order to have a full bleed. Speed was very slow when printing on 2 paper at the same time, cover and text. Otherwise colour solids are great

 

[geoman]

1000 is a great machine, the only problem online bookletmaker can saddlestich or squire fold 10 sheets of 80lb text paper (40 page signature booklet). Interposer can only handle 11x17 paper so you can't feed 12x18 cover stock in order to have a full bleed. Speed was very slow when printing on 2 paper at the same time, cover and text. Otherwise colour solids are great

Agreed. If you're going to spend the sort of money that the X1000 demands, not to mention the level of quality it produces, then you should probably also consider getting some decent offline/nearline finishing kit to fully exploit the machine's capabilities.

 

[X33]

ask for the new Plockmatic Pro 30 Booklet Maker for the Xerox 800/1000

 

[arossetti]

Well I have been running our 800 pretty heavy since Friday, I ran out of toner 4 hours after getting the machine. We have yet to get full training so I will reserve some of my comments untill later this week. We are one of the newer installs of the FreeFlow server 8.0 for the 800. Most installs have been version 7. I have seen a lot of bugs and poor communication between the printer, UI & Free Flow Server.

I have other issues but I'm going to see if its just me not being 100% with the machine first before I blame Xerox.

I'm also bitter because they ordered the wrong server for my 4127 so I have had to go without it for a week and run all my black ink production on one nuvera 120.

 

[Craig]

I'm sure by now your sales monkey has forgot about you too.... don't feel bad, I have only seen mine 4 times in the last 3 years. You are #1 on the list up until you sign on the lease agreement, after that you are known as "What's his face with the 800". My training on the at the time new 8000AP the first install in their area consisted of about 3 hours of the "Specialist" playing with the Fiery and 1 hour of him showing me what I already knew, then telling me he had a 3 hour drive to get home with the "I'll be back buy in a few days to go over other items after you get comfortable". OK it's been 3 years now......

Running out of toner is funny (not haha funny either) you bought a PRODUCTION machine... I bet they shipped it with 1 jar of each??? They must be getting stingy with the toner, I ordered my normal 4 jars of each color and the lady on the phone told me I was only able to get 1 of each based on my model number. After I was finished laughing I had to give a detailed explanation why I needed so much toner.

 

[lfelton]

This being stingy with supplies thing is a real Xerox thing, especially as the deliveries take 5 days. We were getting to a stage where we would be down waiting for toner and Xerox were completely useless. Luckily we'd bought through a large reseller and they were able to sort Xerox out for us and get a sensible stock level for parts. We still have to deal through the (terrible) Xerox call centre for parts, but at least we get them now without a big argument each time.

I'm pretty sure that new Xerox staff have to go through a course called "how to be a complete pain in the arse" before being allowed to man the phones at call centres.

I've got a suggestion for Craig only pay half of their bill next month. Then when they phone up to moan, tell them that you've looked up that model number and computer says they don't need to be paid that much.

 

[Milo Wilson]

LOLOLOL...That's a good one...LOLOLOL..hey..that just might work..

 

[Craig]

Thanks for the laugh... boy did I need that right about now!

 

[printer in heart]

Well I have been running our 800 pretty heavy since Friday, I ran out of toner 4 hours after getting the machine. We have yet to get full training so I will reserve some of my comments untill later this week. We are one of the newer installs of the FreeFlow server 8.0 for the 800. Most installs have been version 7. I have seen a lot of bugs and poor communication between the printer, UI & Free Flow Server.

I have other issues but I'm going to see if its just me not being 100% with the machine first before I blame Xerox.

I'm also bitter because they ordered the wrong server for my 4127 so I have had to go without it for a week and run all my black ink production on one nuvera 120.

Thanks for the info. It gives me ammuniation to deal with Xerox when I have to get my equipment. Please keep me posted as I'm thinking to get similar equipment 800 and 4127. Do you like 4127 or do you think Nuvera is more suitable for high production. Do you have bookletmaker attached to 4127. Does it work and do you like it? I have Docutech but my production went down so Xerox suggested to get 4127.

 

[arossetti]

We had 4 Nuveras and we have scaled it back to just the 1 and two 41XX's. We have yet to run anything heavy on the 4127 because of the server situation but we did purchase it with a booklet maker. We have the same booklet maker on our 700 and I'm happy with it. We have a Horizon booklet maker offline but to be able to "set it and forget it" on the 700 is nice = less payroll.

We have been able to resolve some of the issues with the UI/FreeFlow server and I have a couple files with Rochester that I should have answers for tomorrow.

We were able to get our black ink click on the 800 down very close to our monochrome machine pricing so we plan to use it heavy for CMYK / K mix document printing instead of pre-printing the color are running it in the 120's inserter.

I'm happy we went with a FF server even with the current issues since it communicates with all of our other production equipment and our MakeReady. Being able to forward a job from our 700 to the 800 in seconds is priceless in our workflow. Also being able to program mix-plex documents, multiple stocks etc through the makeready and send it to color machines is something we had been missing with our old DC8000AP/CREO setup.

 

[Yroc]

I see a lot of papers that are 'certified' for iGens. Would those same paper print well on the 800/1000 or is that not even relevant?