Xerox Vs. Ricoh

[CanarcticPress]

I have been working with a 700 and a 260 for a few years now. Although I have become very comfortable with them it seems that every month there is something going wrong with machines (this is quite frustrating).

We have recently started to lean towards Ricoh's production printers. The One We are looking at is the Ricoh Pro C700EX, from what I have heard they make them seem very impressive, but this is speaking to the rep and that's there job.

How available are customer replaceable parts *within Canada*? (as with xerox toners and color drums are quite often on back order)

How often do the Ricohs go down, and are problems solved quickly?

Ive taken a quick look at the numbers Comparing both 700s (Xerox and Ricoh). Although they are both quite impressive. Ricoh's Rep. claims that no matter what the size or weight of the stock the ppm does not slow down on the C700EX, is this true?

I quite often have troubles matching colors (i do calibrate) from a single print off, pan-tones more specifically on the DocuColor 700 how does the C700Ex compare?

Thank you for your time and knowledge, I cant wait to go to the show room and get my hands on the Ricoh and try it out!

**Any other comments would be greatly appreciated**

 

[JoshB]

All printers from all manufacturers break. Hard to even suggest if "Once a month" is a lot without knowing the age of the machines or your volumes, but it doesn't sound like a lot.

As to how quickly they get fixed, this probably depends more on your area than anything else. Ask your Xerox and Ricoh reps for customers in your area and talk to them about their experiences.

Many Pantone colors will simply be unreachable from a four color process. Changing printers won't change that -- though gamut will be slightly different, you'll probably be able to hit a couple new ones and lose a couple old ones.

The only thing that sounds "wrong" to me with your situation is back-order parts and toner. There I would throw a fit. You should demand at least one of every commonly replaceable part be stored at your facility, and insist that you have a safety stock of toner at least equal to how much you could burn through in the longest supply delay that you've seen.

 

[msaeger]

What kind of voulume are you planning on running? what kind of paper weight?

 

[CanarcticPress]

Our impressions a month on the black are approximately 55K
Our impressions a month on the colour are approximately 27K colour and 14K black

 

[msaeger]

Are you sure they are taking about the 700ex and not the Pro c720 ?
RICOH Pro C720 Color Production System

The Pro c720 does run at the same speed no mater what paper type you run the 700ex will slow down for thicker paper.

You should look at the Pro c651/751.

RICOH Pro C751EX Color Copier, High-Speed Color Copier

With any brand the speed of parts and service is going to depend on who is doing it. Xerox might be fast in one city and suck in another it's going to depend on the people working there.

If you get a 651/751 you can get the TCRU kit which is a set of all the consumable type parts that you can swap yourself then the tech can rebuild them later.

It's pretty hard to say how often a machine will be down it depends on the customer. It also depends on what you call down. I have places with machines that have six paper trays but their job uses them all with different kinds of paper so even if one tray is out of order they could say they are down where as most places would just use a different tray.

 

[CanarcticPress]

The Ricoh Rep we are talking too, after taking a look at our numbers is leaning more towards this machine
http://http://ricoh-usa.com/products/product_details.aspx?cid=28&scid=10&pid=1442&ptm=features

How does the C900S and the C751EX compare? (from your perspective)

Thank you so much all of you, I really appreciate the extra feedback!

 

[msaeger]

Which model were they saying you should get? The 751? That link isn't working for me.

Were they talking about the c900 not the 901?

 

[CanarcticPress]

Ricoh rep's are now say we should get the C900S, and the one they where previously saying that we should get is the C751EX

 

[RKS]

Why would you want to go to older technology?

 

[CanarcticPress]

I was not aware that it was older technology, thanks for the heads up! They never did mention this to us, just dropped a email and said that I should take a look at the C900S, on the website looks like a really nice machine (but there is not alot of info about them). Definitely a question worth asking!
Thanks soo much!

Ricoh Pro C900s 90 (color/b&w) vs RICOH Pro C700EX 70/75 (color/b&w) (ppm)

 

[RKS]

You're welcome. The 901 model is the new model.

 

[PrintTriks]

I too am looking at the C651EX, I have seen samples an they look fine but I hope to kick the tires on one soon. What scares me on new machines like this is how well will the new design run and hold up. The real test is always when they hit the floor and start getting run. I do like the idea of liquid cooling the developer for color consistency on long runs, I hope it works.

 

[CanarcticPress]

That is probably one of my biggest fears, and being way up north I want something true and tested. But if Ricoh Technicians and Ricoh Customers can stand behind these products I will definitely give it a go

We would have to fly our Technician up once something goes wrong with the Ricoh machines. Being one the 2 print companies in Yellowknife it is very important there is no down time.

Why we are considering switching from Xerox to Ricoh is I see the technicians on a weekly basis this seems unacceptable. Trying to fix skew problems, toner quality problems, image quality problems and numerous paper jamming issues. Ie: The 700 goes on the fritz every so often and I spend alot of time and paper trying to make paper profiles so jobs will line up on the stock we use.

Print quality is very important also we are very concerned about our product waste as well.

Thanks!

 

[msaeger]

The c901 is the current 90 ppm color and replaced the c900 I know you can still buy a c900 new though. I have only had one place have an issue with registration on the c900/901 and their problem is they insist on cutting down the paper they get for offset and it's cut crooked. Registration has been the strongest feature of the machine but if the papers crooked...

The 751 is a new machine but most of it is a copy of the c900/c901. The paper feed and registration parts are just about the same with some refinements. The biggest differences are the photo conductor / development sections and the laser unit. One of the new features added to the 751 is that when running duplex you can slightly reduce or enlarge the second side to compensate for your paper shrinking or stretching. I have only had one customer ever have an issue with that but it sounds like a cool feature anyway.

I would probably get a c751 over a c900 depends on what they are asking for a price too I guess. We are being told the c751 is going to be aggressively priced. The Pro c700EX is a totally different machine and not anything like the c751 and c901.

If you want less downtime and because you are in a remote location make sure you get the TCRU kits and make sure the tech shows you how to install them. Then you can do pretty much all the preventative maintenance so when you have an issue you don't have to wait for a tech.

The way the liquid cooling works is there are blocks pressed against each development units that have coolant flowing through them into a radiator in the back of the machine and the radiator has a bunch of fans blowing through it.

What else do you want to know

 

[CanarcticPress]

We use a lot of Productolith paper, 80lb 100lb (text cover gloss and matte) We also use a lot of Rolland Enviro too, all these sheets are a 19 x 25' we do have a fairly precise cutter and do a a trim all around. Do either of these machines have difficulty duplexing 100lb or running pre-cut/recycled paper?

On the 700 there is a option (NVM Read/Write) To enhance the pressure of the toner and also a de-curler, do these machines offer those functions?

 

[msaeger]

If the paper is not square you will get skewed prints. The regiatration works by pushing the leading edge of the paper against a metal gate to straighten it then it moves the sheet front frame to rear frame if needed to get it lined up so if the leading edge isn't straight you will get a skewed image. The only place I have had a complaint about registration at cuts their own paper and it's crooked so they get skewed prints.

The c751 has a optional decurler the c901 comes with it standard.

 

[Happyprinter]

C901

C901

We have had our 901 for about 7 months now. We have had a few problems as I have posted previously mainly due to service inexperience on this machine. But, with that being said, in the past few months they finally fixed all issues that we were having and the machine is performing wonderfully. As for running 80 or 100# text gloss or cover, NO PROBLEM at all! Prints look great and our customers are very happy with the finished product. Dont worry about gloss with this machine, it runs it all day long. As stated before, if you put in paper that has not been cut straight, as in offset, you'll have problems.

 

[CanarcticPress]

From previous post's I have also read that the C901 has difficulties printing blues? Some of a biggest print runs are for companies that use a solid blue in the cover, so If that's the case would make me very skeptical.

I heard you can duplex a 300gsm is that true?

Does the machine give off a lot of heat, and does it smell when the print run is over 30 mins. I'm in a well ventilated area but at times the DocuColor 260 smells really bad and the 4127 gives off a lot of heat.

Would it be possible to run Command Work Station with the Ricoh printers?

 

[viclpp]

We have a ricoh 901. We duplex 300 gsm all day long. took out the xerox 242 and 700 and replaced it with it. We are loving it. For service I can't say much since we just got it. Our 700 breaks down once a week or so and we had it for only 1.5 years. Service was horrible so we decided to switch to Ricoh.

I don't think it smells as bad as the 242 does. It gives off a lot of heat though.

It runs a EFI Fiery. So yes it uses CWS

 

[jmstone]

The only thing that sounds "wrong" to me with your situation is back-order parts and toner. There I would throw a fit. You should demand at least one of every commonly replaceable part be stored at your facility, and insist that you have a safety stock of toner at least equal to how much you could burn through in the longest supply delay that you've seen.

Have to agree with this. The toner & supplies situation with Xerox is typical. If you don't want to be caught out with nothing on the shelf then stock up ahead of time on toner when they aren't back-ordering it.

Yes, hording behavior leads to them being in short supply, but I don't go overboard. When I do it their way I run out at the worst possible times, and being out of toner is a dumb reason to not get the work done.