Another Xerox 700 vs Konica 6501

[UberTech]

Don't brag too much about how great the feeders are, we have been experiencing quite a few doubles, unfortunately they go through the engine as doubles and print on top of one sheet and on the bottom of the other. It would be nice if there was some sort of double detection!

The PF unit on the c6500 has ultrasonic double feed detection. But like X33 says, depend on how sophisticated you want your PF unit to be

 

[X33]

What happens if I cut my finger when I remove a bad paper jam? I guess I sue Xerox???

believe me, I've seen crazy things in the US. People like to sue for anything.

 

[X33]

The PF unit on the c6500 has ultrasonic double feed detection.

so what happens when the machine detects a double feed. The machine stops?

 

[Joe Struntz]

Has anyone skipped the Booklet maker option and done all finishing offline?

 

[UberTech]

so what happens when the machine detects a double feed. The machine stops?

It jams, good old J16-02. I have defeated this sensor for a client once so they could feed envelopes, then I saw it feed 5 sheets of 300gsm card at once and not jam, didn't fuse either and sounded like a herd of elephants.

 

[Keith]

Has anyone skipped the Booklet maker option and done all finishing offline?

I do! I got a DC252 a few months ago with the Oversized High Capacity Feeder and the basic Offset Catch Tray. I figured I can spend the money on nicer finishing equipment and the machine runs faster. After I got it, I considered adding one of the finishers because the OCT only holds 500 sheets. But I decided against it because you have to walk over to the machine anyway to check it so you might as well take the paper out of the tray.

 

[Craig]

All finishing is offline here, much more efficient, UNLESS you are finishing VDP work.

 

[X33]

It jams, good old J16-02.

I guess all machines have a double feed detection system then. They all jam.

 

[Craig]

I guess all machines have a double feed detection system then. They all jam.

Not the 8000AP, just feeds 2 sheets as if they were 1. Had it happen 4 time today with 271gsm 12x18.

I wish it would jam, now I'm getting to the point that I need to fan through every job that comes off so I don't look like an ass when my customer finds a sheet with a front but no back and the next has a back but no front!

 

[whitecollarskater]

Xerox 700 hands down!

Xerox 700 hands down!

Our office looked at Canon, Ricoh, Konica and Xerox for our production color. What sold it for us was the ease of replacement parts that we can do without a technician. I mean, really customer replaceable, not like teaching a person to unscrew a few things and lift a heavy fuser like some on the Konica have suggested. Xerox makes it easy. As for quality, I don't know what everyone else is seeing, but the blacks and solid fills on the 700 are beautiful. How can Konica match 600 x 600 vs. 2400 x 2400? We also run a lot of 220lb paper and the only one that could handle it in the machine was the Xerox 700. We have had the machine now for several months and we have not had ONE jam when running the heavy stock through the drawers. Our old Canon couldn't even dream of doing that. We asked Ricoh and Konica but none of their machines could handle that weight. We do a lot of double sided and doing it in the drawer has saved us hours of work. The Konica and Ricoh were less money, but with the volumes that we do we can't afford to be down for 2-6 hours (depending on the time of day and when the call is made for service) to have a tech come out to replace a drum. Now we do it in a few minutes. To the two people that run our copy center, it is priceless to have it. Now we have happy employees that don't have to hear everyone complaining to them about how long the copier will be down.

All of them are great systems, so don't get me wrong, but when we looked at all of the items that were important to us, Xerox had the best solution and we have no regrets. We will not consider replacing the rest of our copiers to their 7400 series because of how happy we are with their high end color machine.

Just my two cents

 

[UberTech]

Our office looked at Canon, Ricoh, Konica and Xerox for our production color. What sold it for us was the ease of replacement parts that we can do without a technician. I mean, really customer replaceable, not like teaching a person to unscrew a few things and lift a heavy fuser like some on the Konica have suggested. Xerox makes it easy. As for quality, I don't know what everyone else is seeing, but the blacks and solid fills on the 700 are beautiful. How can Konica match 600 x 600 vs. 2400 x 2400? We also run a lot of 220lb paper and the only one that could handle it in the machine was the Xerox 700. We have had the machine now for several months and we have not had ONE jam when running the heavy stock through the drawers. Our old Canon couldn't even dream of doing that. We asked Ricoh and Konica but none of their machines could handle that weight. We do a lot of double sided and doing it in the drawer has saved us hours of work. The Konica and Ricoh were less money, but with the volumes that we do we can't afford to be down for 2-6 hours (depending on the time of day and when the call is made for service) to have a tech come out to replace a drum. Now we do it in a few minutes. To the two people that run our copy center, it is priceless to have it. Now we have happy employees that don't have to hear everyone complaining to them about how long the copier will be down.

All of them are great systems, so don't get me wrong, but when we looked at all of the items that were important to us, Xerox had the best solution and we have no regrets. We will not consider replacing the rest of our copiers to their 7400 series because of how happy we are with their high end color machine.

Just my two cents

How long have you been working for xerox? I don't think I have met one customer who was really happy about changing parts in there own machine. Your customers pay the same click rate as everyone else but you expect them to change all the parts? If the fuser is user replacable it is obviously a toy and has proven as such, how are the solids over 160gsm? Crap huh. The 2400x2400 is a typical xerox argument which shows your cards immediatly. You DREAM of matching the solids off a c6501, ask any c6501 owner here, guess what, black is black and you don't need to backfill with 5% anything. I don't know where the 2-6hr BS is coming from either, we have 2hr response and we hit it.

Sorry, you may be legitimate owner but A) everthing you say is straight out of the Xerox sales book B) You findings are completely inconsistant with what I have found on here and X700 owners I talk to in the field.

 

[Craig]

Uber, I am VERY HAPPY to change my own parts. Do you realize how much downtime that saves? If I have to wait for 3 hours for a tech to change a part that takes 10 minutes, that's 3 hours of lost productivity. With my box on the floor it cost $45.00/hour to sit idle, that's $135.00 lost to a service call that I could have had the machine running in a few minutes.

How much do you want to wager that the new KM box will have user changeable parts? You need to remember in the production world we are banking on that machine running.

 

[UberTech]

Uber, I am VERY HAPPY to change my own parts. Do you realize how much downtime that saves? If I have to wait for 3 hours for a tech to change a part that takes 10 minutes, that's 3 hours of lost productivity. With my box on the floor it cost $45.00/hour to sit idle, that's $135.00 lost to a service call that I could have had the machine running in a few minutes.

How much do you want to wager that the new KM box will have user changeable parts? You need to remember in the production world we are banking on that machine running.

So your happy to pay full click cost for servicing your own machine? Your an experienced operator on the shop floor. Can you imagine some generation y'er even figuring out how to open a box much less keep the FACI kit off facebook?

 

[Joe Struntz]

Hi - we did have a deal for the Konica 6501 but the leasing wouldn't fly at the quoted price but it would for $100 more per month so something stinks with this deal I haven't trusted the Konica salesman from day 1. Without the finisher the Fuji Xerox 700 is much closer in price now and I like the images off the Xerox better and the replaceable parts because we always need new fuser rollers at the wrong time. We also already have a Xerox 4112 which runs like a champ. I did like the prints off the 65HC but the price was a lot more and the click charge too. Can anyone recommend the Creo over the Fiery Rip?

Right now the bottom line is driving this decision where is the stimulus money?

 

[Craig]

So your happy to pay full click cost for servicing your own machine? Your an experienced operator on the shop floor. Can you imagine some generation y'er even figuring out how to open a box much less keep the FACI kit off facebook?

As a print for pay provider where deadlines many times are same day turns that answer is YES! I am happy with the fact that I can perform SOME of the SIMPLE service items AFTER being trained by my field tech.

This is a typical scenario, 10:00 am customer send file that needs 2500 tri-fold brochures out on UPS for next day delivery to a trade show. I have the press tied up until after lunch running jobs that were already committed. Just as I am finishing the last job before the RUSH job is to start, I have a drum go bad, producing UNSELLABLE prints. (remember print for pay NOT an office making pretty pie charts for a report) I could:

A - Place a service call and wait for a Tech to come which could be from 1 to 3 hours based on if they are already on a call and how far away they are. (I'm sure you guys aren't sitting around playing solitaire waiting for me to call) Which means I still have to finish the job that's running, print, trim, fold and package the job that's a RUSH, and oh by the way I'll miss my UPS pick up at 4:00, so now I have to pay an employee to drive the shipment to a UPS Depot 15 miles away to make sure it's on a truck.

OR

B - Go to the shelf, grab a drum unit and 20 minutes later I am back up and running.

Uber, the simple fact that my time is far more valuable than the click charge, and having satisfied that customer, more than likely means I will have return business, generating more income. It's very simple.

 

[Keith]

Sorry Uber, I agree with Craig, the CRU's is the top reason I went with Xerox when I bought it back in July. It's all about up time. If my company were Celestial Real Estate (selling martian land, LOL!) and not Celestial Print & Design, I wouldn't want to touch the inside of the machine at all. I could afford to wait for the tech.

 

[lfelton]

Craig's definately right on this one and we have shelves of Konica and Xerox spares. In fact I think we've become the de-facto spares depot for KM in the area as KM engineers regularly "borrow" bits for other customers!

With KM I think it's only the fuser that customers can't change out of the "consumable" components after ACT, but to be fair I've never seen one break, just get worn. Is that the same as on a 7000/8000 Craig or can you swap out the fuser? To put it in perspective, they're not really something that you could just swap out in 2 minutes like the little suitcase things you get on a 252.

I don't know about the fusers in the 700. If they are little ones like in the 252, then I'd want to hold a spare as in my experience they did need replacing fairly often.

 

[UberTech]

Can I have you guys as customers? My customers do an upside down turtle impression when something goes wrong.

 

[Craig]

lfelton, with the exception of the fuser web, the rest of the fuser is for the tech to replace. To be quite honest my average fuser roll/oiler life is 200 - 300k, it's not historically a part that will "all of the sudden" fail. I will normally have plenty of notice to get service there.

Drums on the other hand are a different story.

 

[X33]

Right now the bottom line is driving this decision where is the stimulus money?

check Section 179 Tax Deductions for 2009 | Section179.org