Are J75's still worth buying?

[gazfocus]

On my quest for a 'backup' printer, I had been looking at the Xerox C60's but I've come across a J75 with 1.6m on it, external fiery, a single high cap feeder and a pro booklet finisher at the same price a C60 would cost for the engine alone. Just wondering if it's likely to be a better buy than a C60 with say 500k on the meter.

There's another J75 available with a dual high cap feeder but it has 2.2m on it.

It will mainly be used for printing sticker sheets but the J75 can duplex 300gsm if I need to run some greeting cards through it.

The only downside I can see initially is I've been told by our Xerox engineer that the J75's have to be run with the high cap feeder and the finishing so it will take up a fair bit more room than a C60 without any finishing.

 

[azehnali]

the question is who will service ,its an antique machine
these days even the versant 80 is antique

 

[gazfocus]

the question is who will service ,its an antique machine
these days even the versant 80 is antique

I'm looking for a machine as a backup machine that I'll service/maintain myself.

I'm aware these machines are old but the issue I'm having with our Versant 80 is that (according to our engineer) we are not using it enough to keep it happy so I having another Versant to sit in the corner until it's needed is going to be very expensive, hence looking at an older machine with the simpler user replaceable fusers, etc

 

[azehnali]

how many prints do you run a month

 

[TJPrinter]

I’m not sure what is meant by “not using it enough”. It’s not necessary to run the Versant 80 all day every day. If it’s an environmental situation like excessively high or low humidity/temperature then it would be easier to control the environment where the press is than to buy and self-maintain an old out of date press. It would also be less expensive to turn the Versant 80 on every couple days and run 100 or 200 full coverage sheets to keep the developer and toner moving around than to have a second backup press.

The great thing about the Versant line is that there are plenty of user replaceable parts, and many of these parts are shared with the newer 280 and 4100. Even the fuser is user replaceable, not with a simple pull of a handle but still, it’s a couple screws and out it comes.

If you’re on a service contract for the 80 the only cost of running full coverage sheets is the cost of the paper and that’s not much of an expense compared to having an out of date press for a backup. If you really use it so little, wouldn’t it be less expensive to get rid of the press and pay another shop to do your printing. What is your monthly volume?

 

[gazfocus]

Our Xerox engineer (remember not employed by the dealer so no incentive to try and sell me anything) says that ideally a Versant 80 needs to be running 5k sheets a day to keep it happy. We probably print about 100 - 150 sheets per day most days and most of that is stickers at the moment. There are days when we do 1k+ but not very often.

However, I’m not talking so much about whether or not I can keep my current Xerox happy but I 100% want to buy a second machine as a backup. I simply cannot afford to have no machine for two weeks at a time and whether I up my volume on the Versant 80 or not, there are going to be times when it’s down for a period (largely because I have to go through my dealer to get the engineer booked and the dealers service department are awful to deal with).

Getting my stuff printed by another shop isn’t an option either. One print company in our town are so far up their own backsides when it comes to other local print businesses, they wouldn’t be willing to help anyway, and a lot of the work we do is either same day/next day or single sheet sticker orders so need to be able to do it ourselves really.

I do appreciate the suggestion and the feedback though.

 

[gazfocus]

I should also reiterate, I would much rather have a ‘backup’ machine sat in the corner at work and never need it, than not have it there just in case at the moment. The last 2 weeks have been hell without a working printer.

 

[SoggyWinter]

We've been self-maintaining a C75 as a backup machine with days, even weeks of idle time for a couple of years. Partsdrop.com said that they anticipate ample C/J75 parts availability for years because the machines were/are so widespread. I'm considering getting a couple of more for running light coverage workloads and carbonless, and sporadic backup for the versants.

 

[TJPrinter]

I see why you’d be frustrated with the service on your 80 and need a backup. I disagree with your engineer about needing to run 5,000 a day. The recommended monthly volume on the 80 is up to 80,000 per month, 5,000 per day would put you in the category of needing service more often not less. Guess you have to deal with the service that you have or can get though.

I considered getting a Primelink for a backup for my 280 but I’ve never been completely down for more than a day. I have great service with a dealer and even with the 80 under Xerox direct I don’t ever remember being down completely for more than a day. Issues yes, but nothing that put me completely down.

Even if you don't order parts from Partsdrop, they have great information on their site that can help you self service an older machine. Maybe there's someone similar in the UK that can supply you with parts.

 

[gazfocus]

We've been self-maintaining a C75 as a backup machine with days, even weeks of idle time for a couple of years. Partsdrop.com said that they anticipate ample C/J75 parts availability for years because the machines were/are so widespread. I'm considering getting a couple of more for running light coverage workloads and carbonless, and sporadic backup for the versants.

What’s your impression overall of the quality from the c75? A lot of the stickers we do are quite high coverage ink wise the price we sell for makes the toner cost a none issue really.

 

[gazfocus]

I see why you’d be frustrated with the service on your 80 and need a backup. I disagree with your engineer about needing to run 5,000 a day. The recommended monthly volume on the 80 is up to 80,000 per month, 5,000 per day would put you in the category of needing service more often not less. Guess you have to deal with the service that you have or can get though.

I considered getting a Primelink for a backup for my 280 but I’ve never been completely down for more than a day. I have great service with a dealer and even with the 80 under Xerox direct I don’t ever remember being down completely for more than a day. Issues yes, but nothing that put me completely down.

Even if you don't order parts from Partsdrop, they have great information on their site that can help you self service an older machine. Maybe there's someone similar in the UK that can supply you with parts.

Our old Xerox C560 was from a dealer that fully refurbed the printers to Xerox spec before delivery and then get them back on a service contract with Xerox direct and they were really excellent to deal with. We had toner on tap (so to speak), Xerox engineer was out within a day and had a car full of spare parts, they even replaced a door on the printer because it got damaged even though it was my fault. I’d go back to that in a heartbeat.

This particular dealer we are with now though sell the printer, send it to the customer then hope for the best. They fix issues as they crop up (at our inconvenience) rather than refurbishing the machine beforehand, and it’s a struggle to get toner some days (they certainly don’t like us having spares) but it’s also just how long it takes to even get an engineer out when there’s a problem that is the main issue. If we could report a problem (I don’t even mind being talked through doing the diagnostic bit), then get an engineer with suitable parts within a day or two, I’d be fine with that but two weeks is insane.

 

[azehnali]

man
its jackasses like those guys that give xerox a bad rap
average versant customer runs 10-20K in volume a month and I have close to 50 of them in the field
nobody does 5000 a day on any color machine period
that would be a 100,000 impressions a month

 

[namelessentity]

man
its jackasses like those guys that give xerox a bad rap
average versant customer runs 10-20K in volume a month and I have close to 50 of them in the field
nobody does 5000 a day on any color machine period
that would be a 100,000 impressions a month

I hope you mean on a V80, because we do 100k a month sometimes. I'm sure some other users here are running that volume as well.

@gazfocus, are you able to get service anywhere else? I would think having another machine sitting idle most of the time is just going to end up having issues as well. Our last machine was paid for and my boss insisted I try to use it, but every time I turned it on some weird issue had appeared from the lack of use.

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[azehnali]

the key word is sometimes

 

[azehnali]

the J75 is a better machine specially if you want to run cover stock and 2 sided but it seams like you really dont need a back up machine or need to add more headaches , I know the machine inside out and I try to stay away from them

 

[gazfocus]

I hope you mean on a V80, because we do 100k a month sometimes. I'm sure some other users here are running that volume as well.

@gazfocus, are you able to get service anywhere else? I would think having another machine sitting idle most of the time is just going to end up having issues as well. Our last machine was paid for and my boss insisted I try to use it, but every time I turned it on some weird issue had appeared from the lack of use.

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The main issue is I’m tied into a minimum contract with the current service guys and even if I could wriggle out of it because of their performance, I’d have to then pay for a new provider to refurbish the machine to their standard before they would take it on I imagine.

From what I’ve been told, anything from the Versant 80 upwards would a big no no if it’s going to be left for a period of time. Something like the J75 or C60 should be fine and the J75 specifically was built before Xerox began a mission of cost savings on their presses.

 

[gazfocus]

the J75 is a better machine specially if you want to run cover stock and 2 sided but it seams like you really dont need a back up machine or need to add more headaches , I know the machine inside out and I try to stay away from them

To be honest, I won’t be happy unless I get a backup machine now. As I say, this past two weeks has been an utter nightmare. We’ve had orders piling up and while we’ve managed to get away with doing some very specific orders on our Konica MFP, the quality of the MFP is nowhere near good enough to run some of the jobs we’ve had so we are so far behind it’s not a position I want to be in again.

I’m definitely not going to go out and just buy anything in the hope that it works but I definitely need something at some point.

 

[SoggyWinter]

What’s your impression overall of the quality from the c75? A lot of the stickers we do are quite high coverage ink wise the price we sell for makes the toner cost a none issue really.

Not as good as a Versant, particularly solids.

 

[azehnali]

if the machine is near by go check it out before you decide
parts are not cheap
and it could easily need a couple thousand in parts

 

[kslight]

Side question but if short run stickers are a lot of your business, is that even a good application for this machine? We do most of these on a Roland wide format printer (RF 640 to be exact). Not sure what you’re expecting to pay on a J75 (imho they were okay but not very dependable, when new…I had a pair a of them, usually one was broken). If this is what most of your print business looks like, I think I would buy a Roland print and cut machine.