Avantra 25 and Focus Jam error

[Angel Feliz]

Hello



Any One Would Help me to determine what's causing a focus Jam error and the way to Home position the Focus in case of being necesary?

Also can any one send me a Service Manual for the Avantra 25?


need Help Urgently!

Regards

Angel

 

[Armya Inc]

Hello



Any One Would Help me to determine what's causing a focus Jam error and the way to Home position the Focus in case of being necesary?

Also can any one send me a Service Manual for the Avantra 25?


need Help Urgently!

Regards

Angel

Hi, you have to have access to focus lens, some how the home sensor missed the flag's position. You have to try to release the pin which controls the movement of the lens. I do not use any special tool to remove the carriage since I am an Engineer. If you aren't an Engineer ( But you are )you should use the Carriage tool, otherwise, the carriage bearings will Fly all over the place. Tough Job, but the result worth it. You will have a happy customer at the end of the day. Need any thing? Contact me.
Good Luck.
[email protected]
armyaservices1 ON SKYPE

 

[Angel Feliz]

Thanks Vlad and Armya, i neeed a litlle bit more info from you guys

Thanks Vlad and Armya, i neeed a litlle bit more info from you guys

Hello!


Dead Vlad and Armya that optics looks like the Kodak Magnus 400 fiber Head ,something that i have aligned with the rigth info, the focus and laser system has three sensors, please i need to know if this three sensor have to be blocked at the same time for the home position , if the answer is yes,please i need to know what's the right position for the Spot Size Changer since it has 3 single position and one position have a Double blocking for the sensor ,but i don't know about the right position for the one that have two (a long and a short together) to block the sensor , in case that the home position for the Spot Size Changer is related to the two blocking tabs together which one is the correct one in between the sensor the short or long one?



Believe me you already have given me a great amount of info and i'm grateful for that. Just a little more of info .


another thing that i want to ask is if the DEC board saves the last position where the focus motor was when you shutted down the Avantra 25 or if it looks for the focus home position when you turn it back on ?.


sorry guys a bunch of questions , but very important for me .

GOD bless you guys!

 

[Angel Feliz]

Sorry Vlad and Armya for writing dead instead of Dear

Sorry Vlad and Armya for writing dead instead of Dear

sorry guys

 

[Armya Inc]

Hello!


Dead Vlad and Armya that optics looks like the Kodak Magnus 400 fiber Head ,something that i have aligned with the rigth info, the focus and laser system has three sensors, please i need to know if this three sensor have to be blocked at the same time for the home position , if the answer is yes,please i need to know what's the right position for the Spot Size Changer since it has 3 single position and one position have a Double blocking for the sensor ,but i don't know about the right position for the one that have two (a long and a short together) to block the sensor , in case that the home position for the Spot Size Changer is related to the two blocking tabs together which one is the correct one in between the sensor the short or long one?



Believe me you already have given me a great amount of info and i'm grateful for that. Just a little more of info .


another thing that i want to ask is if the DEC board saves the last position where the focus motor was when you shutted down the Avantra 25 or if it looks for the focus home position when you turn it back on ?.


sorry guys a bunch of questions , but very important for me .

GOD bless you guys!

God Bless you too, but what are you after with all these questions. I thought as an Engineer you will have to do much better approach in writing and Categorizing your questions. You just rushed through many unrelated questions. You do not expect me to go through many pages on this forum to explain and train you on every Parts, Modules and their functionality on SGM . From your questions, I understood you aren't familiar with the name of different parts as well.
Hope I could be there to train you. Let's be realistic, I am not there. Please become a Service Technician and forget being an Engineer and do as follows:

1- Take the Carriage out.( Unplug the Cables from both sides, Need a helper, Lift and pull the carriage straight. watch the bearings they are on your right hand side. You do not want to damage them. GOD HELP YOU. You have to be really professional to know lifting the carriage means trying to have minimum contact between bearings and the rail)

2- Take the carriage out. You need to open the Black cover on the Optics and release the Pin. This is where you need to connect the Flat cable to figure out if the flag in moving through the sensor.

3- You can send the commands through Unidiag and Avdiag to move the focus lens.

4- If it moves with no error you are fine. Next step you have to put the carriage back and perform focus test.

SGM:
Page-2 | Spare Parts for sale



If you have a fast Internet, Skype, TeamViewer Software, Mic and Webcam. I will take you through the procedure and provide you with remote service.



Contact me. [email protected], armyaservices1 on skype.
http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx
www.skype.com

Disclaimer: I don’t guarantee anything in these comments are comprehensive in any way. Not being familiar with the procedure will damage the equipment.


Hope this will help!

 

[Armya Inc]

You have 2 Bearings on the carriage. Be careful not to damage them. You can see one of them on the rail. Please open the attached file.

 

[Angel Feliz]

Dear Vlad , being grateful with you does not give you the right to treat people in the way you're doing it. consider me as a tech guy instead of an engineer if that the problem for my approach. My born language is not the English is the Spanish if that let you understand some technical words that i might have forgotten at the moment .

i'm not trained at fabric as you as an ex Agfa FSE and i'm not expecting you to go thru hundred of pages to answers my questions, just if it is possible for the people that have the knowledge to share it with the ones that are hungry for Knowledge ,those one with the enough technical skills to fix the problem .

Armya, thanks

I've checked all the cables and everything looks fine. now the me explain something on the following lines.

Why I asked about if the DEC save the last position of the focus motor in term of motor steps?

I asked that, simplly i took of the whole carriage of a perfectly working Avantra 25 unit, without any problem damaging any thing on it, then i installed the whole carriage of another failing avantra unit to check something , i did not changed any parameter or connected to the machine with Avdiag or any other diagnostic software. I got the Focus Jam Error after that i decided to put back the whole working carriage unit on the machine ( i did not swapped any parts with the failing carriage unit) and it showed up the same focus Jam error. that's the reason of my question.

My concern is if the DEC started moving the focus motor from the last position where it left (focus Jam error position) in term of motor steps or if it always goto the home position of the focus motor?

If any one can give me an idea why that happened , that would be great.

Armya , Vlad or any one have any idea why that happened?

before using the avdiag i need to satisfy my curiosity about that issue.



i'll appreciate any help to fix the Avantra. excuse me my approach and share the info any one that has it!


thanks

 

[Armya Inc]

Dear Vlad , being grateful with you does not give you the right to treat people in the way you're doing it. consider me as a tech guy instead of an engineer if that the problem for my approach. My born language is not the English is the Spanish if that let you understand some technical words that i might have forgotten at the moment .

i'm not trained at fabric as you as an ex Agfa FSE and i'm not expecting you to go thru hundred of pages to answers my questions, just if it is possible for the people that have the knowledge to share it with the ones that are hungry for Knowledge ,those one with the enough technical skills to fix the problem .

Armya, thanks

I've checked all the cables and everything looks fine. now the me explain something on the following lines.

Why I asked about if the DEC save the last position of the focus motor in term of motor steps?

I asked that, simplly i took of the whole carriage of a perfectly working Avantra 25 unit, without any problem damaging any thing on it, then i installed the whole carriage of another failing avantra unit to check something , i did not changed any parameter or connected to the machine with Avdiag or any other diagnostic software. I got the Focus Jam Error after that i decided to put back the whole working carriage unit on the machine ( i did not swapped any parts with the failing carriage unit) and it showed up the same focus Jam error. that's the reason of my question.

My concern is if the DEC started moving the focus motor from the last position where it left (focus Jam error position) in term of motor steps or if it always goto the home position of the focus motor?

If any one can give me an idea why that happened , that would be great.

Armya , Vlad or any one have any idea why that happened?

before using the avdiag i need to satisfy my curiosity about that issue.



i'll appreciate any help to fix the Avantra. excuse me my approach and share the info any one that has it!


thanks

Hi,
If you are uncomfortable with English, we can write in Spanish.
You didn't mentioned about changing the carriage before. If you did that, why you did it in the first place? What I am trying to point is we can't analyse what you have done in the forum. Here is a place for quick remedies. Please send me an email or come on SKYPE. I Will Analyse everything for you based on what you did. I think I sent you my contact information.

Buenos días,

He leído tu comentario. Vivimos en América del Norte, el sentimiento de humor es diferente de otras partes del continente. No lo tome wrong.This se llama Broma Ingeniería. Todos son ingenieros, o en América del Norte, todos son técnicos que están involucrados prácticamente con las máquinas,
No ha mencionado acerca de cómo cambiar el coche antes. Si hiciera eso, por qué lo hizo, en primer lugar? Lo que estoy tratando de señalar es que no podemos analizar lo que ha hecho en el foro. Aquí es un lugar para soluciones rápidas. Por favor, envíenme un correo electrónico o venir a través de Skype. I Se Analizar todo para usted, basado en lo que hiciste. Creo que te envié mi información de contacto.

No se preocupe por la actitud. Aquí es América del Norte. Hacen las cosas de manera diferente. Todos son ingenieros y que a veces un tiro en el cielo. Grandes que tenemos aquí. Dios los bendiga.

 

[Armya Inc]

Dear Vlad , being grateful with you does not give you the right to treat people in the way you're doing it. consider me as a tech guy instead of an engineer if that the problem for my approach. My born language is not the English is the Spanish if that let you understand some technical words that i might have forgotten at the moment .

i'm not trained at fabric as you as an ex Agfa FSE and i'm not expecting you to go thru hundred of pages to answers my questions, just if it is possible for the people that have the knowledge to share it with the ones that are hungry for Knowledge ,those one with the enough technical skills to fix the problem .

Armya, thanks

I've checked all the cables and everything looks fine. now the me explain something on the following lines.

Why I asked about if the DEC save the last position of the focus motor in term of motor steps?

I asked that, simplly i took of the whole carriage of a perfectly working Avantra 25 unit, without any problem damaging any thing on it, then i installed the whole carriage of another failing avantra unit to check something , i did not changed any parameter or connected to the machine with Avdiag or any other diagnostic software. I got the Focus Jam Error after that i decided to put back the whole working carriage unit on the machine ( i did not swapped any parts with the failing carriage unit) and it showed up the same focus Jam error. that's the reason of my question.

My concern is if the DEC started moving the focus motor from the last position where it left (focus Jam error position) in term of motor steps or if it always goto the home position of the focus motor?

If any one can give me an idea why that happened , that would be great.

Armya , Vlad or any one have any idea why that happened?

before using the avdiag i need to satisfy my curiosity about that issue.



i'll appreciate any help to fix the Avantra. excuse me my approach and share the info any one that has it!


thanks

I read your comment and something comes to every Service engineers' mind. What our fellow engineer did with the carriage?, but I feel you are confident nothing was wrong with your carriage or at least you didn't do anything wrong. There is a Weak lens, which moves along the optical axis of SGM(The source of Laser diode and Red Laser) and provide system focus for every film thickness. In other word the best position which beam can touch the film. There is a small black/White motor and the screw mechanism which will provide the focus range for different film thickness. A motion of 20 mils of this lens shifts system focus by approximately 1 mil(0.0001 inch). Having mentioned this and going back to your question the movement of the lens covers a small distance. and it has been determined by the focus value in DEC Pcb, but Dec do not know where this value will be. The value is determined with respect to home sensor and it was a preset value determined in the factory or by the engineer which varies depending on the media thickness via Focus Test. The question is why the home sensor didn't see the Flag? Was it plugged in properly to the carriage board. Did you reversed the polarity of the wires to the focus motor? Did you somehow moved the Flag or displaced the sensor? can it be just a bug? These are the questions hard to answer by anybody, but if you are thinking the DEC focus value caused this, I will tell you noway, you didn't touch the DEC Focus Parameter Or can we say somebody corrupted the DEC parameters? The best is to release the pin to the focus block and make few movement to the motor being 100% sure the sensor can see the Flag and moves the lens. From there you will need to proceed with putting the carriage back and conducting the Focus test. I tried to satisfy your curiosity to an acceptable level, but there are much more to it. Hope this will help!

He leído tu comentario y algo que llega a toda mente ingeniero de servicio. Lo que nuestro compañero ingeniero hizo con el coche, pero creo que usted no es nada seguro de que estaba mal con su coche o por lo menos no hizo nada malo. No es una lente débil, que se mueve a lo largo del eje óptico del SGM (La fuente de diodo láser y láser rojo) y los enfoques del sistema para cada espesor de la película. En otras palabras la mejor posición que haz se puede tocar la película. Hay un pequeño motor negro / blanco y el mecanismo de rosca que proporcionará el rango de enfoque para el espesor de la película diferente. Una moción de 20 milésimas de pulgada de esta lente se mueve seleccionado por el sistema en aproximadamente 1 mil (0,0001 pulgadas). Habiendo mencionado esto y volviendo a su pregunta el movimiento de la lente con una distancia pequeña. y se ha determinado por el valor de centrarse en diciembre de PCB, pero diciembre no sé de dónde este valor será. El valor se determina con respecto al sensor de su casa y se determinó un valor preestablecido en la fábrica o por el ingeniero, que varía en función del grosor de los medios de prueba a través de Focus. La pregunta es por qué el sensor de su casa no vio la bandera? Fue conectado correctamente a la placa del carro. ¿Se invierte la polaridad de los cables del motor de enfoque? ¿Se movía, la bandera o el sensor de desplazados? puede ser sólo un error? Estas son las preguntas difíciles de responder por nadie, pero si usted está pensando en el valor de enfoque diciembre causó esto, te diré Nimodo, que no tocó el parámetro de diciembre de enfoque o podemos decir que alguien corrompido los parámetros de diciembre? Lo mejor es liberar el pin en el bloque de foco y hacer algunos movimientos para que el motor es 100% seguro de que el sensor se puede ver la bandera y mueve la lente. A partir de ahí tendrá que proceder a poner el carro hacia adelante y llevar a cabo la prueba de Focus. Traté de satisfacer su curiosidad a un nivel aceptable, pero hay mucho más que eso. Esperamos que esto ayude!

 

[Angel Feliz]

One Avantra 25 solved , Another one on the way to be solved( I hope SO)

One Avantra 25 solved , Another one on the way to be solved( I hope SO)

armya

thanks, for the info and thanks for encouranging me to write my posts in Spanish but i prefer English, so i can reach to most of you Guys that have a good experience with agfa equipments. Latin americans techs most know English , sometimes not perfect writers or speakers but we do our best to keep it up.

Ok this is What i done upto now


I solved one of two Avantras , the problem was that all the sensors for the Optics(Focus, Spot changer, etc) were reversed(the sensor were taken out from the bacl male connector and reversed and them back in random positions) by some other tech from where the machine came from. I really never expected that someone will reverse all the sensors and change their posisiton too, so after some time rechecking everything and comparing the connectors with another client avantra i founded that all my problems got solved putting the sensor's connector in the right way and order.

I tested the machine and imaged a test with not problem.


After finishing Avantra25 #1, I went for Vantra25 #2 ,I got connected with AVdiag and saw tha the focus motor is not at the home position, I tried to move the focus motor to the home sensor using the AVdiag but the Avdiag is showing an error with the API command (i do not Know Why) after not having any progress with the avdiag move focus motor to home command i decided to take out the carriage board and started testing the power transistors and found an IRFZ24N zener diode(spefically Q14, the zener in front of it and the resistor R144)at the Carriage Board that is causing a short circuit and not allowing the Machine to move the focus motor also is shutting down the power supply , if disconnect the flex and turn on the power the machine keep the power on and booting secuence begins.





that's what happened upto now .


I'll try to fix the carriage board replacing the bad components and hoping to susceed repairing that board

Two questions for any one that wish to answer it back

1) why the Avdiag is showing some APIS errors, not with all the commands most of the time with the focus command movement or some times a timeout error shows up ?

2) Is there an speed settings for the spinner in the DEC and in which subsystem or menu it's located?


thanks in advance

 

[Armya Inc]

armya

thanks, for the info and thanks for encouranging me to write my posts in Spanish but i prefer English, so i can reach to most of you Guys that have a good experience with agfa equipments. Latin americans techs most know English , sometimes not perfect writers or speakers but we do our best to keep it up.

Ok this is What i done upto now


I solved one of two Avantras , the problem was that all the sensors for the Optics(Focus, Spot changer, etc) were reversed(the sensor were taken out from the bacl male connector and reversed and them back in random positions) by some other tech from where the machine came from. I really never expected that someone will reverse all the sensors and change their posisiton too, so after some time rechecking everything and comparing the connectors with another client avantra i founded that all my problems got solved putting the sensor's connector in the right way and order.

I tested the machine and imaged a test with not problem.


After finishing Avantra25 #1, I went for Vantra25 #2 ,I got connected with AVdiag and saw tha the focus motor is not at the home position, I tried to move the focus motor to the home sensor using the AVdiag but the Avdiag is showing an error with the API command (i do not Know Why) after not having any progress with the avdiag move focus motor to home command i decided to take out the carriage board and started testing the power transistors and found an IRFZ24N zener diode(spefically Q14, the zener in front of it and the resistor R144)at the Carriage Board that is causing a short circuit and not allowing the Machine to move the focus motor also is shutting down the power supply , if disconnect the flex and turn on the power the machine keep the power on and booting secuence begins.





that's what happened upto now .


I'll try to fix the carriage board replacing the bad components and hoping to susceed repairing that board

Two questions for any one that wish to answer it back

1) why the Avdiag is showing some APIS errors, not with all the commands most of the time with the focus command movement or some times a timeout error shows up ?

2) Is there an speed settings for the spinner in the DEC and in which subsystem or menu it's located?

thanks in advance

I am happy to hear that. Where are you from?
Avantra #1: Did you do the Focus test? Did you do an Exposure and 50% dots Test page? Did you measure the density and the 50% dots with a Film Densitometer? Do you know what to test or look for on the page? What brand of films are you using?. What other tests have you conducted before moving to Avantra #2? Having imaged file on the film isn't necessarily means you are done.

One at the time:
Why the Polarity of the sensors were changed? You are saying somebody changed the polarity of the sensors. This seems kind of Impossible and odd for somebody to take all the wires from the Plugs to Carriage board and reverse them purposely. I think there are flaws in your statements. You have to make sure you are on the right track.

Please finish the first machine before moving to the second one. Understand that you have a duty of care to your customer and his investment . You shouldn't breach this duty. It isn't a college project you are working on. All these trials and errors will cause some technical problems unrelated to the original problem. For you this is a learning opportunity, for the owner it is his life investment and obligation to his customers. He is depending on you as an Engineer to get the machine up and running.

 

[Angel Feliz]

I am happy to hear that. Where are you from?
Avantra #1: Did you do the Focus test? Did you do an Exposure and 50% dots Test page? Did you measure the density and the 50% dots with a Film Densitometer? Do you know what to test or look for on the page? What brand of films are you using?. What other tests have you conducted before moving to Avantra #2? Having imaged file on the film isn't necessarily means you are done.

One at the time:
Why the Polarity of the sensors were changed? You are saying somebody changed the polarity of the sensors. This seems kind of Impossible and odd for somebody to take all the wires from the Plugs to Carriage board and reverse them purposely. I think there are flaws in your statements. You have to make sure you are on the right track.

Please finish the first machine before moving to the second one. Understand that you have a duty of care to your customer and his investment . You shouldn't breach this duty. It isn't a college project you are working on. All these trials and errors will cause some technical problems unrelated to the original problem. For you this is a learning opportunity, for the owner it is his life investment and obligation to his customers. He is depending on you as an Engineer to get the machine up and running.

Yes youre' right!! and I Just moved for a while to the other Avantra, did not mean to abandon in an unfinished state the Avantra #1, i'll be back on monday and finish with all necessary test(i need a my partner to finish a job with the densitometer , because the client does not have one).

well

Answering your Questions

1) I'm really a Field Engineer for Kodak CTPs in the Dominican Republic and being introduced to Agfa CTF by a friend tire of Guessing Techs I mean . He knows I'm not an expert on Agfa CTF machine but he trust in my technical background in the CTP field.

I always read the service Manuals before putting my hands on any equipment . I personally never consider my jobs as College Projects and never do Trial and error except if that what the Service Manual says so for some settings.




Armya , i really don't Know Who and How the three sensors connectors got reversed for the Whole SGM on Avantra #1, because for doing that some one took them out of the Black connector that put them together before they were back to the carriage board male connector), the only thing that the client told me is that he bought that equipment a few days ago from a closing Pto. Rican Press Shop, that means that they never had use this machine before in the Dominican Republic and that's not the only thing the Focus Motor Connector was reversed too inside of the black containing connector. Why? i Don't Know .The client think he Knows who did it.


Today i Replaced the Bad semiconductors for the Avantra #2 Carriage Board and tomorrow i will install it on the machine and expect no surprises .

Thanks for reading my posts and help me to be a better Tech.

 

[Armya Inc]

Yes youre' right!! and I Just moved for a while to the other Avantra, did not mean to abandon in an unfinished state the Avantra #1, i'll be back on monday and finish with all necessary test(i need a my partner to finish a job with the densitometer , because the client does not have one).

well

Answering your Questions

1) I'm really a Field Engineer for Kodak CTPs in the Dominican Republic and being introduced to Agfa CTF by a friend tire of Guessing Techs I mean . He knows I'm not an expert on Agfa CTF machine but he trust in my technical background in the CTP field.

I always read the service Manuals before putting my hands on any equipment . I personally never consider my jobs as College Projects and never do Trial and error except if that what the Service Manual says so for some settings.




Armya , i really don't Know Who and How the three sensors connectors got reversed for the Whole SGM on Avantra #1, because for doing that some one took them out of the Black connector that put them together before they were back to the carriage board male connector), the only thing that the client told me is that he bought that equipment a few days ago from a closing Pto. Rican Press Shop, that means that they never had use this machine before in the Dominican Republic and that's not the only thing the Focus Motor Connector was reversed too inside of the black containing connector. Why? i Don't Know .The client think he Knows who did it.


Today i Replaced the Bad semiconductors for the Avantra #2 Carriage Board and tomorrow i will install it on the machine and expect no surprises .

Thanks for reading my posts and help me to be a better Tech.

You are the one! I trust you with your customer's equipment and not to breach the duty of care, This is where you as an Engineer make a difference by going an extra mile for your customer to make him a client. There are series of tests you may conduct like exposure test, Focus test and etc. A series of Alignment on the carriage itself. Good luck and wish you the best from Toronto, Canada.

I am always here to help!

[email protected]
Cell:1-416-706-5473

 

[Angel Feliz]

Armya according to avantra service manual where can i Find the PC Imager Program, because i will need it to be able to send the Focus.Fil for calibratinf the focus?

thanks

 

[Armya Inc]

Armya according to avantra service manual where can i Find the PC Imager Program, because i will need it to be able to send the Focus.Fil for calibratinf the focus?

thanks

Is it still down?

It is a Hardware, Software Device. You will need to purchase it. Use the Computer with Apis board. The one you use for Agfa Rip . Open the Undiag in Apis mode. You need to have the Unidiag for this Good luck.

 

[Angel Feliz]

Armya, the PC imager refers to the the RiP Software(like Xitron,Harlequin,etc) , Where can i find the FOCUS.FIL file to perform the Focus Adjustment procedure ?

thanks in advance

 

[Armya Inc]

Armya, the PC imager refers to the the RiP Software(like Xitron,Harlequin,etc) , Where can i find the FOCUS.FIL file to perform the Focus Adjustment procedure ?

thanks in advance

Would you be able to tell me if you have an Agfa standard Pac board(Apis board) on your rip computer? If so, you will be able to install the Unidiag there and Run the Focus file under Image files. You will need to configure unidiag in Apis mode. I know, when you refer to the manual, it will direct you to Pc Imager, something that you do not have or you have to purchase. As Vlad mentioned, The Avdiag doesn't work with this configuration.

 

[Angel Feliz]

Where can I get or buy the unidiag software?

any suggestion is welcome

 

[Armya Inc]

Where can I get or buy the unidiag software?

any suggestion is welcome

I suggest to contact your Agfa representative and purchase the unidiag and/or Pc imager.

Good luck.