Azura alternative plates.

[motormount]

Hi all!

I was wandering if there is any-cheaper- alternative digital plate to Azura,and how much would it cost.

The plates are allright,but the cost is almost twice as a chinese positive one!

We could use chinese positive plates but then we should buy a new plate processor as well,so i thought if we could find something like the azura and keep the current processor,or else go to the positive solution.

Thanks in advance!

 

[leicalsf]

Well, if cost is your concern, then I think using Chinese or higher end positive plates will still be the cheaper option.... as long as you have a good processor in your workflow, because as you might know already, process variables can be a serious complication... There's a crazy Taiwanese processor I mentioned in another thread, better capability (than European ones) and cheap, perhaps you can look into it. Chinese brand processors will get you nothing but pain, and European processors will carve a good juicy chunk out of your wallet.

good luck

 

[ameyer]

I tried one of these chinese plates in my Magnus 400. The MCU didn't bring it to the drum. It was very unstable and the paper between the plates was so slippery that it couldn't be removed by the MCU either.

So i decided to invest some cents more and stay with the FUJI LH-PCE which is a great plate for every day.

 

[motormount]

It's not my decision, i'm very well pleased with azura and no way i'd ever wanted to go back to development/fixers/right temperatures etc... but the cost is like 3 euros less for each plate if we go for china,not a couple of cents unfortunately!

 

[Alith7]

Did you try the Fuji EcoMaxx-T plates?
we just switched from our Azura plates to Fuji's and it's been great. AND we ditched the processor and the gum costs.
All in all, I think we saved over $30k in the first year.
Our burner is an AGFA Acento S 4-up, manual plate loading and unloading.
Fuji's techs were super helpful, and Fuji covered the costs of having the tech come in and recalibrate for the new plates.
I can refer you if you'd like.

---> ok, don't know if I can refer you if you're not in the US...but I can try?

 

[motormount]

Thanks a lot!

Not in the US,so don't bother refering,i'll talk to management tomorrow,if they are interested they 'll reach Fuji!

Thanks again!

 

[agvera]

Hi
In other countries than USA it is sold as Pro-T followed by version figure.
Regards

 

[leicalsf]

I would personally recommend the Taiwanese processor with KODAK/FUJI/AGFA or higher end Chinese plates.
Fuji "Lo-Cham"/"ZAC" system can only be used for Fuji Plates, but the GRAFMAC CDN/P (the Taiwanese processor) can process all thermal Chem plates (Chinese plates included). According to the testing report from my supplier, using Kodak GT plate and GT developer/replenisher, it can process 12,000 sq. m worth of plates consecutively without changing the original developer, just replenishing. No manual calibration needed during the process, no scrap/wasted plates, and the dot deviation is always within 0.5%, conserving up to 42% of chemical and 75% water usage... The most important point is.... it cost just slightly more than G&J Gecko, but A LOT cheaper than G&J Interplater. This is going to offer you a lot more flexibility when you are thinking about switching plates in the future. You can use this processor to play the "price game" with supplier of different brand; I did... and it worked really well...
I can ask my supplier for more info or reference if you are interested.

 

[motormount]

Is it possible to use a conventional processor-the ones we used with films- if we go with positive plates,or will it be too slow for them?

 

[leicalsf]

If you are referring to conventional PS plate processor, then perhaps the real problem is not speed, but temperature control. Conventional PS plates's temperature range tolerance is relatively wider than CTP plates, so it is usually not equipped with a chiller but only heater. CTP plates processing requires more accuracy in the temperature control, so chiller and better water circulation within the developing tank is absolutely necessary.
compare to the plates you consume on a annual basis, I seriously don't think a capable and reliable processor would be too much of an investment for your boss; and the cost related to buying or using a not-so-realiable processor will definitely cost your company more in the long run.

typed a lot, hope my wordy reply helps.

 

[motormount]

Really helpfull leicalsf,thanks a lot!

It also helps that-forgot to mention that-we got a kind of ''late'' model with a chiller-so we 'll give it a try.

You 're right on that a good processor isn't much of an investment if want your job done nice and safe,but we are at a point that every cent counts-we wouldn't move from azura otherwise!

 

[ngocdung93]

Have you tried to look the AquathermSP watershable or non-process negative plate from Mylan Group, under Dr. My Thanh Nguyen's patent? MYLAN Printing Media Corporation | Aquathermsp

 

[leicalsf]

yeah, you should give your old processor a try before any further spending. But there is a few things I'll suggest you during the trial though. 1. use a thermometer to constantly check developer temperature from time to time during the trial, get the temperature reading from every part of the developing tank. 2. If the developer temperature is consistent (within 0.5 degree difference), and verify that temperature with the temperature in your processor setting. 3. Keep tracking the chemical quantity use of your replenisher if your processor has replenishing function. 4. Keep track of your developer's endurance with replenishing, how often will you have to change developer, and how many plates can it process before your developer died out (with replenisher).

I should also give you some explanation for my suggestions...

1. unlike conventional PS plate, the temperature tolerance range for conventional CTP plates is a lot smaller, 0.5+/- degree deviation will affect your developing result, and the developer temperature should be consistent at all part of the tank. 2. Actual developer temperature not being consistent to the set temperature has been an issue with processors, what you see might not be what you get, so be careful. This kind of problem is usually related to heater, chiller, and bad water circulation design. 3. Your manager is thinking about switching to conventional CTP plates for bring the cost down, but this cost-down attempt won't be too effective if your processor use-up (or waste) too much developer during the process. 4. Changing developer will take a few hours of work, you will have drain the dead developer then wash the developing tank and everything in it before you refill the tank with new chemical. It is definitely not commercially efficient in terms of time consumption. Also I believe there is an extra cost of processing the used chemical before it can be released into the water system, and you don't want too much of that cost.

But I am certain that, if you do things right with right equipments, then you are DEFINITELY going to be able to make plates with the same (if not better) quality and cost-down a lot with conventional CTP plates.

I might be able to give you more information if you can tell me which PS plate processor do you have and what conventional CTP plate are you planning to try in this processor. oh, one thing I forget to mention.. the brush pressure for CTP plate processor and PS plate processor is different... but try and see how it does first.

good luck motormount! let me know if you run into any trouble.

 

[motormount]

I will!

Thanks again!

 

[motormount]

update:

After some ''testing'' and experimenting,we lowered the drum speed to 200rpm's,otherwise the plates did not developed right on our conventional Lastra attrezzature sm90 processor.
(The emulsion wasn't completely washed away-although to the naked eye the plate was clean- and patches were printed were there should be no work at all)

Cutting down supra's speed though,gave clean plates but a very ''interesting'' and not at all expected subsequent result as well:

Laser power on such slow rpm's evaporated the plates emulsion and filled the ctp with blue powder within less than four months since we started writing positive plates.

A tech came,cleaned what should be cleaned in order to be functional again.

Now we got the speed up to 230 rpm's,stopped the supposed ''guilty'' plate brand and we are only using a supposed ''better'' one.

With a productivity of less than 120 plates this month,i can't quite say how's thing's going with the new ''set up'',but once-and when- we'll start working again,
probably i'll come back with more news...

 

[tomcatinc]

Some plates require a vacuum unit that would extract the dust during imaging. Did you try Agfa Azzura TS or the original Azzura? Original Azzura required a lot more energy compared to the TS version.

 

[motormount]

tom,as i wrote above we were using the ts plates with no problems at all.
We went towards positive plates due to financial reasons.
Suprasetter has a very capable vacuum as long as you use it within ''some'' standards.Plates like the ones that caused the problem are supposed to be imaged above 400 rpms-tech said-

Anyway thanks for your answer.

I'll be coming back with this shortly,as we 're facing a new ''challenge''.

Plates,although look clear after development,when we start to print gives us some fat ''dots'' in every color,which can be cleaned with a cleaning agent the pressman uses.

I'll provide some scanned samples when i can,cause it's not easy to describe.

Best thing is that the dots are not on every plate,sometimes there are,sometimes are not....

-not much of an economic solution after all...-

 

[Alith7]

tom,as i wrote above we were using the ts plates with no problems at all.
We went towards positive plates due to financial reasons.
Suprasetter has a very capable vacuum as long as you use it within ''some'' standards.Plates like the ones that caused the problem are supposed to be imaged above 400 rpms-tech said-

Anyway thanks for your answer.

I'll be coming back with this shortly,as we 're facing a new ''challenge''.

Plates,although look clear after development,when we start to print gives us some fat ''dots'' in every color,which can be cleaned with a cleaning agent the pressman uses.

I'll provide some scanned samples when i can,cause it's not easy to describe.

Best thing is that the dots are not on every plate,sometimes there are,sometimes are not....

-not much of an economic solution after all...-

sounds like you either have a bad batch of plates. Check the side of the box for the lot#. if you have a box with a different lot number, try those and see if you have the same problem. Otherwise, it might be your processor isn't cleaning the plates as well as it should. check your rollers and your wash heads to make sure they aren't clogged or dirty.

 

[prepressdork]

Motormount, I take it you have tried contacting your Agfa salesperson? Will they not re-negotiate your plate pricing? If not, letting them know you are considering a change of plates might yield a better outcome?

 

[motormount]

ok here's an example!

Alith7,it's not the batch,friday's plates looked like the sample above,today's plates came out clean-from the same box-....

The processor is supposed to be cleaned every 1000 plates,we processed less than half since the last maintenance and the gum rollers are cleaned every day.It looks like a cleaning issue but can't figure out how,rollers and brushes looks good.

prepressdork,i'm not responsible for dealing with that stuff but i think management tried all it could,after all it's rather obvious that even with the low price they are getting,the azura option was much more productive in many aspects!